Different recipe

I want to try a different recipe than I've been using, still sticking with materials I have on hand. Here's what I came up with:



Bit high on linoleic acid, but should be ok at least for personal use. I have added ROE to my oils. When I get through the canola I've got I'll specifically get HO canola, sunflower, or safflower instead. Had no clue about fatty acid profiles when I bought the oil, and it's not one I'll use for cooking. So, soaping with it is better than just letting sit in my cabinet and go rancid.

Added the PKO to because it was looking like I'd wind up with very soft bars, and I'd just as soon not wait a month for them to firm up (and also because I have it).

Whoa!

I am so amazed at that soap calculator. I have to find it! I am new to soap making so I don't have much to comment but my next venture is to work on finding my base recipe and really understanding how to make the soap I want. Your soap seems like it would come out quite nicely!

Here is the link to the Soap Calc calculator: http://soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp

Play around with it, get to know how it works. There's another calcuator from Soapee that people like:

http://soapee.com/calculator

See which one you prefer!

If you are concerned lower the RBO which is the oil highest in linoleic and up the olive oil or canola. I am the odd one that loves canola in soap and have never had dos with the regular although I now use Canola HO mainly to replace OO which I dislike in soap. I would cut the shea to 10-15% since it cuts lather and add in castor at 5%. I also never found RBO as a great replacement for OO and hate the color it turns the batter. As for waiting a month for the bars to harden you need to cure your soap for a min of 4 weeks so that is a moot point

You have brittle oils and soft oils, but no hard oils - unless you count the shea.

Are you trying to stay vegan?

BrewerGeorge: I am not staying vegan or even vegetarian with my recipes out of any moral or ethical reasoning. But I am using what I've got, and I want to use up the bottles of sunflower and canola oil I bought when I initially was putting together soaping supplies. I'll get some lard and try it out eventually. I promise. :grin: I am going to try to avoid palm oil and palm kernel oil, aside from the PKO that I bought also when first getting supplies. But for now, shea is indeed my primary hard oil so it's gonna be in pretty much all my soaps until I find another one that I also like.

cmzaha, huh, so it is. I thought the canola would be higher in linoleic, didn't actually go look at the profile for the individual oils til just now. I'll fiddle with my proportions of RBO and canola. Adding another step to putting together recipes (checking fatty acid profile of oils when adding)... I'm not going to use castor in this batch, want to see how it lathers without any. And you're right about waiting for bars to firm up being a moot point, not sure what I was thinking there.

Edit: shifting amounts around in my recipe doesn't make an appreciable difference in the linoleic, so I'll give the recipe as given above a run and see how it does.

DunbarDesigned, I love SoapCalc. Here's the link again, in case you missed it from Viore. http://soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp. Lots of folks here seem to prefer Soapee, but I prefer SoapCalc. The way it's laid out is intuitive for me to use. Don't think I've ever even looked at the instructions or tutorial on how to use it, it's that easy.

DunbarDesigned said:

...my next venture is to work on finding my base recipe and really understanding how to make the soap I want.

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That's kind of what I'm doing here. I'm still new at soap making, too. I have one recipe I've made a few batches of that's quite nice even before it gets halfway through curing. The other recipe I've used is ok, but not as good as my current 'favorite' (I think it's the cocoa butter in the not as good one that brings it down). I'm also learning what oils I like and don't like in soap. I'm leaning toward not being a huge fan of coconut, so this recipe uses less than I have been. I'm also leaning toward not being a big fan of cocoa butter in soap.

cmzaha said:

I now use Canola HO mainly to replace OO which I dislike in soap. I would cut the shea to 10-15% since it cuts lather and add in castor at 5%. I also never found RBO as a great replacement for OO and hate the color it turns the batter. As for waiting a month for the bars to harden you need to cure your soap for a min of 4 weeks so that is a moot point

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I thought you were a convert to OO when you posted a rave review about a 1 year plus OO bar.

Lard is cheap. Go to Walmart or the grocery store, buy a tub, and try some in soap. You are only out a few dollars and you might (probably will) like what it brings to the party.

Arthur Dent said:

Lard is cheap. Go to Walmart or the grocery store, buy a tub, and try some in soap. You are only out a few dollars and you might (probably will) like what it brings to the party.

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I will... just as soon as I use up some of these other oils. Price isn't my problem. Storage space is my main problem at the moment.

Kittish said:

I will... just as soon as I use up some of these other oils. Price isn't my problem. Storage space is my main problem at the moment.

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If you're firmly in "use up" mode, so be it. But, you'd make a lot better soap by spending three bucks on a pound of lard and replacing that shea butter with it. Just saying. :mrgreen:

Save the shea for lotion bars.

ETA: For that matter, since you know you want to stop using PKO, replace all the coconut with PKO to use it us faster. You're always going to have coconut around, but if you use up all your PKO that's one container you can ditch.

BrewerGeorge said:

If you're firmly in "use up" mode, so be it. But, you'd make a lot better soap by spending three bucks on a pound of lard and replacing that shea butter with it. Just saying. :mrgreen:

Save the shea for lotion bars.

ETA: For that matter, since you know you want to stop using PKO, replace all the coconut with PKO to use it us faster. You're always going to have coconut around, but if you use up all your PKO that's one container you can ditch.

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..... :think: I am intending to venture into making lotion bars in the near future... Ok, now you've got me thinking. But I still have the problem of storing another bucket until I manage to run out of SOMETHING.

You make good sense, and I hadn't even considered replacing coconut with PKO til it's gone. Thank you for that idea, I'm absolutely going to adopt it.

Lots of edits today. My memory is... strange. A bit slow sometimes. But my file retrieval system finally went 'bing!' and popped up the card that said "there's lard in the freezer". Wait, what? I have lard? When did I get that? Oh.... yea, right. It's been in there for at least three years. So.. should I try it? Or toss that box and start with new? Box says there's BHT and citric acid added. I have it sitting on the counter now, thawing. Won't know for a little while if it's got any off odor to it.

Deep freeze or frost free? If it's frost-free it will probably smell like "freezer" - you know the way ice gets when it's old. I don't know if that would survive the lye or not, though.

I'd imagine either is probably fine as far as rancidity, though. I'm currently using hops from a deep freezer that are at least 5 years old with no ill effects.

BrewerGeorge said:

Deep freeze or frost free? If it's frost-free it will probably smell like "freezer" - you know the way ice gets when it's old. I don't know if that would survive the lye or not, though.

I'd imagine either is probably fine as far as rancidity, though. I'm currently using hops from a deep freezer that are at least 5 years old with no ill effects.

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Frost free. And yep, I know the freezer smell. So... how about this:

penelopejane said:

I thought you were a convert to OO when you posted a rave review about a 1 year plus OO bar.

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Nope only that it was great for a castile soap. I still am not at all crazy about high OO in my regular soap bars. I will use it at times in the 10-15% range when I have got around to purchasing some at Costco. Otherwise Sunflower HO or mid Oleic, Canola HO and of course Avocado are my favorites. Problem is even in bulk and no shipping the Avocado is getting quite expensive. I never liked RBO much either. I know a posted a review about a high shea butter soap that was fantastic that I think was over 2 yrs old. I am still saving the last bar and rationing it just for me.

If the lard smells off at all, don't use it. I had a older box that smelled old but not rancid. The smell never did go away, even a strong scent didn't cover it and it was worse when using the soap. I finally tossed it out.

Personally, I think the first recipe with shea looked just fine. I've used shea at 20% before and it was a nice enough bar, I did use quite a bit more pko though to help boost lather plus I was making a brine soap.

I would do something like this
lard 40%
shea 10%
coconut or pko 20%
canola/rice bran/whatever you like 25%
castor 5%

I'm probably too late, but I wouldn't soap either of those formulas without a bit more tweaking, but the first one is better than the second one, IMO and IME. Here are my tips for working with the values given on SoapCalc.

SOAP QUALITIES - First recipe
(Recommended “Range” in parentheses)

36 Hardness (29 - 54)
14 Cleansing (12 - 22)
61 Conditioning (44 - 69)
14 Bubbly (14 - 46)
23 Creamy (16 - forty-eight)
73 Iodine (41 - 70) <<< Closer to 50 would be better
124 INS (136-165) <<< Aim for INS 160 (so-called "perfect" soap)

Sat:Unsat ratio >>> 37:63 Oils are not well balanced between saturated oils and unsaturated oils. Aim for something closer to 50/50

TIP: Shea butter can be subbed for lard and vice versa. They are similar in Soap Qualities and Fatty Acid values. Try 40%

I think you'll be happier with your results if you use the default setting 38% water as % of oil weight during the T & E period.

When using both Coconut Oil and PKO flakes, I like 12% CO with 13% PKO. Using this combo should bring your Saturated fats up, increase lather, and lower the iodine value.

The remaining 35% I would use OO for one batch. Olive Oil has the unique ability to bring the other oils into saponification -- unless, of course, it's adulterated.

Then, for comparison, do another batch with 35% RBO; and another batch with 35% Canola. If you're like me, you might want to change color for subsequent batches to help remember which is which. LOL

I finally took the time to actually read your recipe instead of just reading the thread.

It's very similar to what I've found to be my favorite recipe yet. I don't use PKO or RBO but I use almost the same percentages with the PKO and RBO numbers added to the olive. The only SoapcCalc number I look at is cleansing and that's just to make sure it's not too high.

My recipe isn't a super bubbler but it leaves my skin feeling super nice

Whee so much great advice... I'm starting to feel kind of waffly. I don't know which one to do. :???:

I like the idea of your experiment, Zany, but that one will wait a bit until I've got room to do all three batches back to back.

Obsidian, another great suggestion. It's not that far off from the second one I posted, plus it stays within the oils I'm wanting to use, so I'm thinking I'll give your combo a try.

cmzaha said:

Nope only that it was great for a castile soap. I still am not at all crazy about high OO in my regular soap bars. I will use it at times in the 10-15% range when I have got around to purchasing some at Costco. Otherwise Sunflower HO or mid Oleic, Canola HO and of course Avocado are my favorites. Problem is even in bulk and no shipping the Avocado is getting quite expensive. I never liked RBO much either. I know a posted a review about a high shea butter soap that was fantastic that I think was over 2 yrs old. I am still saving the last bar and rationing it just for me.

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Have you tried almond oil? I know some people might have allergies to it but I've had fantastic feedback that it is better than Avocado oil.

BattleGnome said:

The only SoapcCalc number I look at is cleansing and that's just to make sure it's not too high.

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Uh oh... if all you're looking at is the Cleansing Value then you may be missing out on all that SoapCalc provides. My memory fails me... I'm not sure if you've had problems with DOS or not, but a low cleansing value can also create problems with the final soap if you're not taking into account the rest of the Soap Qualities and Fatty Acid profiles as well. JMHO :smile: Please read on...

Kittish said:

Whee so much great advice... I'm starting to feel kind of waffly. I don't know which one to do.

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Kittish, I think a little more "play time" on SoapCalc would help with the "wafflies". :smile: You're definitely smart enough to figure this out for yourself, you just need confidence and maybe a little push in the right direction, me thinks...

To my mind at least, these experimental batches should be about more than just using up what you have on hand -- it's a learning opportunity -- the challenge is to formulate the best soap possible given the oils you have on hand. Yes?

The INS value is one of the keys to success. When it falls below the recommended ranges, as in this case, you'll still have soap, but it likely won't be ready to unmold soon and require a long cure. Are you going to be happy with that???

It's all about "The Basics" and laying a solid foundation from which you can grow going forward. To that end, I encourage you, and Battle Gnome as well, to take a look at the following links to get some good advice on how SoapCalc can become your best friend on your journey to becoming a Soaping Rock Star!

SoapCalc Tutorial
http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49627

The Soap Dish - Oil Properties Chart
http://www.the-soap-dish.com/oil-properties-chart.htm