Ran out of OO

Kittish · Jul 19, 2017

Ran completely out of olive oil and I won't be able to get any more supplies for at least a couple of weeks. Currently I've got castor, sunflower (grocery store brand), canola (grocery store brand), avocado, rice bran, coconut, and meadowfoam seed oils as well as stearic acid, palm kernel flakes, cocoa butter and shea butter. Can I make a decent bar with just these or should I grit my teeth and wait to make more soap until I can get more OO? I know I can throw 10-15% of each type of oil/butter together and make soap but would it be a decent soap? If it would only be sort of 'meh' on top of possibly being prone to DOS, then I'd just as soon not expend the materials.

Obsidian · Jul 19, 2017

You can use avocado or rice bran (or a blend of them) in place of your OO. What do you generally use for your hard oils? Any lard or palm?

Kittish · Jul 19, 2017

Obsidian said:
You can use avocado or rice bran (or a blend of them) in place of your OO. What do you generally use for your hard oils? Any lard or palm?

Been using shea and cocoa butter as my hard oils. Kind of want to stay away from the palm oil, in part because I'm kind of lazy and don't want to have to melt the entire container every time I go to use it, and in part because of the environmental issues around palm farming (yes, I'm aware those issues apply to PKO as well). I'll be able to pick up some lard when I can get more OO, but it's going to be a couple of weeks.

KristaY · Jul 19, 2017

Rice bran is an excellent sub for OO. I've used it blended with other soft oils and it makes a nice soap. I also use avocado oil in most of my recipes because it's a favorite of mine. I like canola and sunflower but only if they're high oleic. I've used the lower oleic versions and got DOS straight away, especially with canola (also soybean).

I suggest making a small batch subbing all the OO with rice bran and another small batch subbing all the OO with avocado and see what you think of each.

Kittish · Jul 19, 2017

KristaY said:
Rice bran is an excellent sub for OO. I've used it blended with other soft oils and it makes a nice soap. I also use avocado oil in most of my recipes because it's a favorite of mine. I like canola and sunflower but only if they're high oleic. I've used the lower oleic versions and got DOS straight away, especially with canola (also soybean).

I suggest making a small batch subbing all the OO with rice bran and another small batch subbing all the OO with avocado and see what you think of each.

Alas, I'm nearly certain that neither my sunflower nor my canola is high oleic. I'm rather hesitant to try using all RBO because of this from this thread:

fuzz-juzz said:
<snip>
Out of soft oils, my favourite is RBO. I swapped most of my OO % for RBO. I use it at about 15-20%. The other day I used it at 50%, trying to create mild facial bar.
Big mistake, it created squishy, mushy disaster. It was 500gr batch so not a huge waste lol.

Arimara · Jul 19, 2017

You may want to consider selling the PKO if you're not going to use it. It's a bigger waste to have it lying around and it doesn't honor the plants any not to use what was taken from them. Generally speaking, as far as soap goes, I'd suggest 20% each RBO, shea, and cocoa butter, 25% avocado oil, and 15% coconut oil. I'd also utilize some salt in that recipe and keep the superfat low.

Kittish · Jul 19, 2017

Arimara said:
You may want to consider selling the PKO if you're not going to use it. It's a bigger waste to have it lying around and it doesn't honor the plants any not to use what was taken from them. Generally speaking, as far as soap goes, I'd suggest 20% each RBO, shea, and cocoa butter, 25% avocado oil, and 15% coconut oil. I'd also utilize some salt in that recipe and keep the superfat low.

Since I've got the PKO, I'll use what I've got, but I'm not planning to buy any more. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give it a try. I've not even thought of trying to make salt bars yet, the thought is kind of intimidating. Trying new things is good, though, right?

Arimara · Jul 19, 2017

Kittish said:
Since I've got the PKO, I'll use what I've got, but I'm not planning to buy any more. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll give it a try. I've not even thought of trying to make salt bars yet, the thought is kind of intimidating. Trying new things is good, though, right?

Only if they really really pique your interest. I personally can't use them, even though they do feel nice, but you may find salt bars to be your thing.

About the PKO, sorry- I thought your wasn't going to use it. Seems silly on my part but I have met people with that mind set. If you did use the PKO, I would sub 5-10% of the CO with it and enjoy the bubbles.

I didn't bring up the meadowfoam but please don't consider using it in a soap. From what I hear, it is truly wasted in a soap, though it may feel nice. If you pick up lotionmaking, that oils would be better spent there.

BattleGnome · Jul 19, 2017

What Arimara means is to add 1tsp-1tbsp of salt to the water before adding your NaOH. Salt acts as a hardener to help unmold faster and cleanser. There's not enough salt to be considered a salt bar or even a brine bar. In a way it's like adding sodium lactate, except sodium lactate might bring other things to the table as well

Edit:
Arimara posted while I was typing, keeping it up cuz of different infor

Arimara · Jul 19, 2017

BattleGnome said:
What Arimara means is to add 1tsp-1tbsp of salt to the water before adding your NaOH. Salt acts as a hardener to help unmold faster and cleanser. There's not enough salt to be considered a salt bar or even a brine bar. In a way it's like adding sodium lactate, except sodium lactate might bring other things to the table as well

Edit:
Arimara posted while I was typing, keeping it up cuz of different infor

Thanks. I've been having difficulties with my hands lately so I'm afraid how often I post and how well I explain myself are suffering. Sorry for not elaborating.

Kittish · Jul 19, 2017

Thanks for the clarification, BattleGnome. I'm certainly game to give that a try.

Arimara, awesome! I appreciate your recommendations, and I'm going to use them.

The meadowfoam I will use in soap, a little, simply so it won't wind up sitting around for months and months. I'll be branching out into doing teeny, tiny little batches of solid perfumes (like under an ounce batch size tiny), and can maybe use some in those too. Got no real plans at this time to try lotions.

Steve85569 · Jul 19, 2017

I have an RBO experiment still curing.
I made a Castille at the same time and the spirit of " I wonder?" got me.
The bars are 100% RBO.
They look fine. I may just *have to* try one and report back to you. They're at 7 months cure and counting.

Steve

cmzaha · Jul 19, 2017

I personally dislike OO in soap but love canola and sunflower. For years I used just the store brand of canola with no dos issues and I purchase Mid Oleic sunflower to save money not high oleic. I get more dos when using lard than when I use regular canola or sunflower

KristaY · Jul 20, 2017

Kittish said:
Alas, I'm nearly certain that neither my sunflower nor my canola is high oleic. I'm rather hesitant to try using all RBO because of this from this thread:

That was interesting. I have a gentle recipe I love that's 45% OO, 45% RBO & 10% butter. I don't have a squishy problem with it but I also cure it at least 6 months. Maybe it's the blend of the two oils?

Steve85569 · Jul 20, 2017

I used 100% RBO in my experiment. I also used sodium acetate ( vinegar) and 4% salt The SF was 3% (estimated). That could very well be why there was no squishy-ness when I used it in the shower today.
My time estimate was off though. According to the label it was made on April 27th this year. It made slime and lather left me squeeky clean too.

The Monkee Farts FO has all but vanished though.

It can be done. But you do need to harden the soap. It is all soft oil after all.

Arimara · Jul 21, 2017

Steve85569 said:
I used 100% RBO in my experiment. I also used sodium acetate ( vinegar) and 4% salt The SF was 3% (estimated). That could very well be why there was no squishy-ness when I used it in the shower today.
My time estimate was off though. According to the label it was made on April 27th this year. It made slime and lather left me squeeky clean too.

The Monkee Farts FO has all but vanished though.

It can be done. But you do need to harden the soap. It is all soft oil after all.

How was the lather? Bubbbly, creamy or non-existent?

Steve85569 · Jul 21, 2017

Lather is creamy. Just like one would expect from an OO bar.
I may just *have to* do this experiment with a 0% SF just to see how long it will store.

neonstudy · Jul 21, 2017

How about a salt bar. Do you have any fine ground sea salt? You could do 80% coconut oil, 10% avocado, 10% shea, 25% superfat, add 50% sea salt at trace.

cmzaha · Jul 21, 2017

neonstudy said:
How about a salt bar. Do you have any fine ground sea salt? You could do 80% coconut oil, 10% avocado, 10% shea, 25% superfat, add 50% sea salt at trace.

There is no reason to use 25% superfat. I would not go over 20% and actually for this recipe I would use 15% superfat. High superfat and butters drastically cut lather in salt bars.

penelopejane · May 23, 2018

You will have to try RB yourself because just like OO you might like it or you might not like it for your skin. It is a personal preference. Different OO perform differently in soap. So do different RB oils. Especially in regard to colour.

While Steve's assessment (in Earlene's link above) is interesting he uses vinegar in his 100% RB soap which will effect the feel and lather of soap depending on how much is used.

These experiments are a good guide because they use no additives to muddy the waters of comparison.

http://alchemyandashes.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/single-oil-soap-experiment-phase-one.html
http://alchemyandashes.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/hey-remember-me-i-baaaccckkk-single-oil.html
http://alchemyandashes.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/single-oil-soap-experiment-phase-3-one.html

Ran out of OO

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