You get what you pay for!

[Frigga]

Thanks for the informative posts guys! I've been working on my skincare products for almost a year now, and I think that I'm ready to start trying to get my line ready for selling, but I was too nervous about buying essential oils online because I was afraid of getting inferior oils that had been cut and adulterated. I think that I have a good springboard now, in regards to companies to work with in finding good quality essential oils at reasonable prices. I have an aphrodisiacal lubricant that I created that my friends absolutely adore, but the essential oils alone for just a 2 ounce bottle of carrier oil was costing me $15, using essential oils I had bought at my local herbalist store. Stuff like that I would love to be able to sell, but at my current costs, I wouldn't be making any profit.

I'm so glad to be able to peruse the forum and get useful tidbits like this.

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

I have an aphrodisiacal lubricant that I created that my friends absolutely adore, but the essential oils alone for just a 2 ounce bottle of carrier oil was costing me $15, using essential oils I had bought at my local herbalist store. Stuff like that I would love to be able to sell, but at my current costs, I wouldn't be making any profit.

When you say "lubricant", I'm assuming you mean something that will come in contact with sensitive mucous membranes? I would SERIOUSLY advise against that, especially if you have any thoughts of selling it. EOs on mucous membranes can be very dangerous and cause serious irritation. Besides, if its costing you $15 in Essential Oils to create a 2oz bottle in carrier oil, you would have to be using WAY too much, no matter what EO you're using. In 2 oz, you would be measuring in drops of EO. My suggestion for an "aphrodisiacal" product would be either a massage oil or solid perfume with (possibly) the same EOs you're using now at a rate of no more than 3%. Not trying to be "preachy"...just concerned when I read the TYPE of product being made with EOs.

As for the original post, I have had good experiences with Camden-Grey. My experiences with Essential Depot have been varied. My Juniper, Bergamot, and Geranium were up to par, but Ylang Ylang in particular was questionable. Unless you have smelled a high quality, unadulterated Essential Oil, many people wouldn't know what one SHOULD smell like...and honestly, unless you know exactly where your oil is derived and manufactured, you can't know for a fact if it is "pure" no matter the smell. I struggle with this, as I only use EOs in my products. I'm not naive enough to think that they are always "safer" than synthetic FOs or that I don't come in contact with a million synthetics everyday. I just do my best to educate myself and make choices based on the information available.

With that being said, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE that you get what you pay for! If you find Sandalwood, Jasmine, or Rose Absolute $20 for 15ml...I can guarantee it IS NOT the real deal!

 

[Frigga]

I am using Simplers Essential Oils, and the Rose Otto alone was costing me $7.20, using 3 drops, as each drop is $1.80, as the 1 mL vial I bought from my herbalist shop cost me $38. As I said, I need to get wholesale pricing.

 

[maxxx39]

I've been going to Whole Foods for the cheapest EO's I can get and have done pretty well on Ebay long as I use a top rated seller not a fly by night company...

 

[AlchemyandAshes]

Whole Foods is WAY overpriced on EOs. You'd be better off ordering online, even in small amounts with shipping. For instance, 1/3 oz of Aura Cacia Juniper Berry Oil is about $15 at Whole Foods. I can get 4 oz from Camden Grey for $20.50 plus shipping...still cheaper. Whole Foods may be a good resource on the fly or just to sample an oil, but in the long run, an online wholesaler/retailer would be more cost effective.
As for eBay...I would be leery unless its one of the bigger retailers with an eBay store selling the EOs. I think DragonQueen mentioned WFMed having an eBay store that she has used. There are too many eBay sellers marketing fragrance oils as essential oils that I would be afraid of receiving something other than what I thought I purchased.
Check out www.camdengrey.com or New Directions Aromatics (I think that's the company name).

 

[Seifenblasen]

Since writing this rant, my new favorite places to get EOs are:

1. Brambleberry, Majestic Mountain Sage, or Soap Making Resources if I am ordering something. Very consistent in quality.

2. Amazon (Now Brand) if I am not making an order of soap making supplies and need something quick. Limited to more common types such as peppermint, lemon, etc. Most of the time I got free shipping.

3. Texas Nature Supply. An odd duck, not the best in customer service but have some very interesting stuff.

3. New Directions Aromatics, Mountain Rose Herbs, and Bulk Apothecary. Good places for hard to find EOs. Bulk Apothecary is less expensive than the first two; and I like the fact that the list the country of origin.

I have mixed experience with Camden Grey, and it is kind of far away for when you figure in the shipping, it is just easier to avoid it all together. Have not had a chance to try the lavender supplier suggested by Kathy.

 

[soapsydaisy]

The reality is that we are now so accustomed to synthetic versions of scents that we do not have an acute understanding of what the real thing smells like. Coconut is a really good example of this. That scent we all recognise as coconut doesn't smell much like natural coconut odour which I find to be quite nauseating. We've been conditioned to a version of it which has copious amounts of coumarin added in order to make it more palatable to people. I've never come across an apple that smells anything like synthetic apple fragrance which has been constructed to trigger our brain receptors to think 'apple' when we smell it. I'm actually really fascinated with the overt conditioning of our sense of smell by cosmetic and food manufacturers. The brain can be tricked easily with certain chemicals, some of them have no odour in and of themselves but they trigger a certain memory response in the brain so that we think we are smelling a certain thing.

I was just telling someone this same thing. I have 5 kinds of natural lavender blends and 1 fragrance oil lavender. A woman came into my booth and smelled every soap in my booth. She told her friend that the FO soap was the only soap that actually smelled like lavender (to me it smells like fabric softener).

 

[jenneelk]

I have yet to find the quality, strength and Pureness (at least to my nose) as I find at Mountain Rose Herbs. They are pricey being organic but I can many times use 1/2 as much for the same result and a much better scent.
Some things like lavender I don't notice a difference as much and mix with WSP. But items like chamomile, tea tree!, orange, there really is a night and day difference.
Tea tree is one dislike from 5 suppliers and only MRH has a smell I consider correct and not rotten smelling.

 

[bwendo]

Sadly, most EOs are adulterated with various synthetic and natural components to both bring the price to a level the market will bear and to improve a poor oil so it can be sold.

I agree - going after products based on price point alone is a recipe for disaster.

For quality, we need to pay more - it's really that simple.

:-o

 

[onugs]

We could always do it ourselves:

http://www.heartmagic.com/EssentialDistiller.html

 

[Stakie]

We could always do it ourselves:

http://www.heartmagic.com/EssentialDistiller.html

Darnit, now I want this!

 

[heartsong]

I've been using www.libertynatural.com for over 20 years now and their inventory, quality and customer service is outstanding! you can purchase any size from a dram to a drum...they grow their own lavender for e/o, too. located Willamette Valley, Oregon...the only drawback is their website is kind of a PIA to navigate, but well worth the extra time...a couple years ago I ordered some apricot (peach? I forgot which!) kernel oil & it smelled just like fresh peaches!

 

[sperry]

has anyone tried to make their own EO's?

Is it difficult? expensive? Sounds like a potential answer to some of the issues in this thread.

 

[Eve]

So... I know a Dutch webshop that sells EO for cheap. 5 euros for 10 ml lavender, 6 euros for 10 ml patchouli, 3 for 10 ml rhosemary, 2,50 for 10 ml lemongrass... They list it as essential oil, and some have 'this is 100% pure essential oil' in the description (like lavandin, 3 euros for 10 ml) but not all. Does this mean the other ones are diluted? They do list all the chemical compounds of the oil.
I have some oils from them that smell nice, pine and sandalwood. But I can't tell like that if they're synthetic.

Or is this not really cheap and is it just because I'm used to the health store prices of at least 8 euros for a small bottle.

Woooow so okay, edit. I found a HUGE information page on their site explaining exactly this problem. I think they're legit, they explain how they have trouble finding pure oils because the suppliers mess with it too, etc.
(hekserij.nl for people who are interested, they sell a lot of stuff for all kinds of chemical processes - soap making, but also perfumery and lots of other things)

 

[dagmar88]

That site is reliable.

And yes, you're probably used to retail prices.

 

[Eve]

Thanks!

(also I get why I thought of those prices as cheap... partly because I'm used to expensive prices, partly because I didn't know how much you where supposed to use - just made my first soap with EO, and the scent didn't come trough at all!)

 

[namad]

Sadly, most EOs are adulterated with various synthetic and natural components to both bring the price to a level the market will bear and to improve a poor oil so it can be sold. Most people will not know the difference between an EO that's been altered and stretched and one that hasn't. The suppliers of very high quality oils are enormously expensive, yet that reflects the true cost of an essential oil. Usually a lot more than the average consumer is willing to pay.

France exports more Lavender oil than it actually produces. That's because it's EO is being stretched and improved with synthetic components and other cheaper oils that are only detectable by an expert and gas chromatography. It's estimated that 90% of all essential oils sold are actually a melange of synthetic components and an essential oil, often altered at source before the distributors and retailers even see them. It's for this reason I don't fragrance my soap as even the more common EOs aren't what we think they are. :cry:

I do purchase high quality EOs for perfumery and even the price of a simple lavender will surprise you. These are oils that the retailer sources directly from a traditional distiller. The distillery gets a higher price for their product and an incentive to maintain it's quality, rather than having their products auctioned off to market dominators who's main objective is to sell a lot of oil at a lower price point. One has to wonder what a realistic price is for a substance that is difficult and costly to produce and consumes vast amounts of plant material in it's manufacture. Most essential oils of undiluted quality are too expensive to buy in sizes larger than a 1/2 Oz.

Sometimes this extending is as simple as mixing a higher quality EO with a cheaper but similar smelling EO of another plant. That does change the scent profile somewhat which is then rectified by adding the notes which are now 'off' synthetically. Rosemary oil is routinely extended with eucalyptus, they smell similar in the top note but the drydown is different. Ever bought a rosemary EO that you thought for sure was eucalyptus? Now you know why. Other times a poorly produced oil, lets say lemon is recitified by having synthetic citral added to it, to make it more lemony and what the consumer expects. Therefore more marketable.

The reality is that we are now so accustomed to synthetic versions of scents that we do not have an acute understanding of what the real thing smells like. Coconut is a really good example of this. That scent we all recognise as coconut doesn't smell much like natural coconut odour which I find to be quite nauseating. We've been conditioned to a version of it which has copious amounts of coumarin added in order to make it more palatable to people. I've never come across an apple that smells anything like synthetic apple fragrance which has been constructed to trigger our brain receptors to think 'apple' when we smell it. I'm actually really fascinated with the overt conditioning of our sense of smell by cosmetic and food manufacturers. The brain can be tricked easily with certain chemicals, some of them have no odour in and of themselves but they trigger a certain memory response in the brain so that we think we are smelling a certain thing.

Wow, very informative and you opened my eyes up. Thank you. PISSES ME OFF to be lied to haha but I won't stop using the EO's. And how weird the way the brain works eh, goodness.

 

[Second Impression]

Ooooo Siefenblasen, I hope you demanded a refund! I got burned by the same company's "essential oils". The owner tried to tell me my soap was having some magical reaction with the water in my shower that was causing the Lavandin to smell like dirty kitty litter. I got my money back for the oils and got rid of the unused oils, never again will I buy essential oils from that company!

Sent from my XT907 using Soap Making mobile app

 

[squyars]

Could we use this thread for people to post their favorite sources for their EO' s, FO' s and other soap making supplies? I would love to hear where you all like to get your supplies and why.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2

 

[paillo]

I've had the opposite experience with EOs from XXX Depot. Maybe I've just been lucky with the ones I've ordered, but I love the Dalmation Sage, Bitter Orange and Ylang Ylang I've bought from them.

I mostly buy essential oils from New Directions Aromatics, though I wish they carried an 8oz size. Their prices are really reasonable, shipping is fast, and quality is great. Haven't tried Liberty Naturals yet, but have a wishlist stacked up from there. Mostly I buy lavender EO from a wonderful seller on EBay, Amore Lavender Farms, but she may be out of it for the year. Sun Pure Botanicals on Ebay, http://www.ebay.com/usr/sun_pure_botanicals, is excellent.

I'd buy more from BB, but can usually find better prices elsewhere, though I love them for supplies I can't get elsewhere.