Would this be a good soap?

[Soapy_suds]

Hi, I am onto my first self-made formulation. 40% Pomace OO, 40% Coconut Oil, 20% Castor Oil. How do these numbers look? Would this be an acceptable soap? I am trying to formulate a soap from oils easily available to me. I will add rose kaolin clay as colourant, and rose essential oil for fragrance. Will this be a fast moving recipe or a slow one? Will adding clay complicate things in terms of time to reach trace? Will this soap take ages to cure? Will it have sufficient lather and cleansing?

Soap Bar Quality	Range​	Your Recipe​
Hardness	29 - 54​	38​
Cleansing	12 - 22​	27​
Conditioning	44 - 69​	57​
Bubbly	14 - 46​	45​
Creamy	16 - 48​	30​
Iodine	41 - 70​	55​
INS	136 - 165​	164​

 

[Obsidian]

This soap will be very drying and probably soft. Too much coconut makes it drying while too much castor can make a soft, sticky bar.

If these are the only oils you really have access to, try 75% OO, 20% coconut and 5% castor. This will be a very long to cure soap with not a great amount of lather.
You really need a hard oil like lard or palm.

Have you priced rose essential oil? Its stupid expensive, not worth using in soap.

Clay can speed trace a little if you use too much, keep it too 1 tsp or less per pound of oil and you should be fine. OO tend to be a slower tracing oil.

 

[Soapy_suds]

Thanks for your inputs. I used a 100% coconut oil soap earlier with 25% superfat, it was super cleansing but not drying. Will superfat help for this one?
Also, our country has hot, humid weather. And summer is just around the corner. That was another factor in wanting to keep OO low. Lather is something people really look for here. Any other additives that can make it less drying? I have almond oil too, but would like to keep the quantity low as its expensive.
Rose EO - I use only a few drops. Like may be 1/2 tsp for 500 grams ( just over a pound). It gives a lovely fragrance, even in small quantities.
P.S. I didn't fine Rose EO to be expensive. May be because it is grown locally here? Its in the same price range as other essential oils like lavender, citrus, rosemary etc.

Does clay help to harden the bar? Like by absorbing the water....don't want a soft bar.

 

[bluebirdwing]

What about butters? Kokum butter, Shea butter or Mango butter? I heard they are cheap at UP, compared to other places.

 

[Soapy_suds]

What about butters? Kokum butter, Shea butter or Mango butter? I heard they are cheap at UP, compared to other places.

I am buying from Amazon/Vedaoils. So don't think it matters where I am in India. I found all the butters to be expensive. Minimum 550/kg. So I want to avoid using in soaps, unless its a very small quantity.
Another factor is that I don't want to purchase a bunch of oils and stuff. It is not economical to buy in smaller quantities, and bulk purchases that will have to be stored for a long time doesn't make sense. So i want to keep the list of ingredients to a bare minimum to keep the costs lower.
Let me give this soap a try tomorrow. If it works, well and good. Else I will buy either palm oil or one of the butters. Palm oil I have not seen in regular grocery stores or on Veda oils. Its a bit unpopular i think
Other choices can be sesame oil, sunflower oil, groundnut oil. These are easily available.

Total oil weight​ 500 g​ Water as percent of oil weight​ 21.44 %​ Super Fat/Discount​ 7 %​ Lye Concentration​ 40.000 %​ Water : Lye Ratio​ 1.5000:1​

Sat : Unsat Ratio​ 42 : 58​ Iodine​ 55​ INS​ 165​ Fragrance Ratio​ 31​ Fragrance Weight​ 15.50 g​

​	Pounds​	Ounces​	Grams​
Water​	0.236	3.78	107.20
Lye - NaOH​	0.158	2.52	71.47
Oils​	1.102	17.64	500.00
Fragrance​	0.034	0.55	15.50
Soap weight before CP cure or HP cook	1.530	24.49	694.16

#	√	Oil/Fat​	%​	Pounds​	Ounces​	Grams​
1​		Coconut Oil, 76 deg​	40.00	0.441	7.05	200.00
2​		Olive Oil pomace​	50.00	0.551	8.82	250.00
3​		Castor Oil​	5.00	0.055	0.88	25.00
4​		Almond Oil, sweet​	5.00	0.055	0.88	25.00
​		Totals	100.00	1.102	17.64	500.00

Soap Bar Quality Range​ Your Recipe​ Hardness 29 - 54​ 40​ Cleansing 12 - 22​ 27​ Conditioning 44 - 69​ 55​ Bubbly 14 - 46​ 31​ Creamy 16 - 48​ 18​ Iodine 41 - 70​ 55​ INS 136 - 165​ 165​

 

[earlene]

That would be a very fast moving recipe, however too harsh for my skin, of which the cleansing number is indicative. But I am in my 70's and my environment is different from yours. If you found 100% CO with a 25% not to be too drying, perhaps your skin is more suited to higher cleansing numbers, so perhaps your skin can handle this formula. I'd suggest a SF a bit above the default 5%, maybe 8-15%, perhaps?

What I would suggest is that you make a small batch (say one pound/450 grams/4 bars) and try it out.

I disagree that this will be a soft soap. Coconut soap is hard. Castor Oil soap is hard. Olive Oil soap is hard. (I've made all three as single oils soaps; they are all hard bars.) I know some people say that high Castor produces a soft soap, but not everyone who has made high Castor soaps had that experience.

The reason I say this will be a fast moving recipe is the pomace and coconut oil. How much heat and if you use a stick blender or not, will impact how fast the formula moves. So as long as your oils are clear when melted, and not too hot, but remain clear, and you don't over-mix with a hand-emulsion blender (stick blender) - I don't know if you use one or not - then you should have time to add color and pour into your mold. Because of the high Coconut oil content, I advise against insulating this soap as it will heat up pretty fast inside the mold, even on a bench (counter-top). I would watch for cracks forming along the top toward the center of the mold, and if they start to appear, lift the mold up onto a trivet or cooling rack to allow for air flow beneath. That should be enough to prevent overheating.

EDIT: That was for your first formula. I see you have added another.

Regarding your second formula:

I'd still say your SF should be higher. And this formula would move even more quickly than the first.

Perhaps make both of them in that same size and test them monthly side-by-side to see how they perform as they cure?

 

[Soapy_suds]

That would be a very fast moving recipe, however too harsh for my skin, of which the cleansing number is indicative. But I am in my 70's and my environment is different from yours. If you found 100% CO with a 25% not to be too drying, perhaps your skin is more suited to higher cleansing numbers, so perhaps your skin can handle this formula. I'd suggest a SF a bit above the default 5%, maybe 8-15%, perhaps?

What I would suggest is that you make a small batch (say one pound/450 grams/4 bars) and try it out.

I disagree that this will be a soft soap. Coconut soap is hard. Castor Oil soap is hard. Olive Oil soap is hard. (I've made all three as single oils soaps; they are all hard bars.) I know some people say that high Castor produces a soft soap, but not everyone who has made high Castor soaps had that experience.

The reason I say this will be a fast moving recipe is the pomace and coconut oil. How much heat and if you use a stick blender or not, will impact how fast the formula moves. So as long as your oils are clear when melted, and not too hot, but remain clear, and you don't over-mix with a hand-emulsion blender (stick blender) - I don't know if you use one or not - then you should have time to add color and pour into your mold. Because of the high Coconut oil content, I advise against insulating this soap as it will heat up pretty fast inside the mold, even on a bench (counter-top). I would watch for cracks forming along the top toward the center of the mold, and if they start to appear, lift the mold up onto a trivet or cooling rack to allow for air flow beneath. That should be enough to prevent overheating.

EDIT: That was for your first formula. I see you have added another.

Regarding your second formula:

I'd still say your SF should be higher. And this formula would move even more quickly than the first.

Perhaps make both of them in that same size and test them monthly side-by-side to see how they perform as they cure?

Thank you for your very detailed reply. I will try the second formula today. Based on what you said, i'll use a whisk. Lets see how it goes. Also i am using small moulds with lovely shapes, not a loaf mould. Hope that would help to keep temperatures lower.
Wil lincrease the SF to 10%.

 

[bluebirdwing]

I am buying from Amazon/Vedaoils. So don't think it matters where I am in India. I found all the butters to be expensive. Minimum 550/kg. So I want to avoid using in soaps, unless its a very small quantity.
Another factor is that I don't want to purchase a bunch of oils and stuff. It is not economical to buy in smaller quantities, and bulk purchases that will have to be stored for a long time doesn't make sense. So i want to keep the list of ingredients to a bare minimum to keep the costs lower.
Let me give this soap a try tomorrow. If it works, well and good. Else I will buy either palm oil or one of the butters. Palm oil I have not seen in regular grocery stores or on Veda oils. Its a bit unpopular i think
Other choices can be sesame oil, sunflower oil, groundnut oil. These are easily available.

Ok, I thought you could get from local market. For, Palm oil, what about supermarkets? The common brand is Ruchi Gold.

 

[Soapy_suds]

Ok, I thought you could get from local market. For, Palm oil, what about supermarkets? The common brand is Ruchi Gold.

I haven't seen these butters in any market. I think they are relatively new in Indian cosmetic industry. Not used in homes. Ruchi gold i have seen. Will look out for it. Thanks for the tips.