Will extra water slow trace?

[Kathymzr]

Been reading about having trouble with acceleration probably due to prolonged stick blending-increased reaction like car going downhill. That makes sense to me. I use 33% water generally. Can acceleration problems be caused by too little water? I have used 38% water, but that always seemed to take make longer drying time and didn’t seem to affect trace acceleration. I know the forum has addressed this countless times - Ugh! But what results come from 33% water vs 38% water. Basically, does water amount affect acceleration? Will more water give a thinner slower batter?

I just hate going over this again. But something is not clear in this tiny brain of mine!!

 

[AlexanderMakesSoap]

I believe using a more concentrated lye solution is supposed to quicken trace, at least from what I've read.

I typically go with a 40-45% lye solution and find that trace doesn't come too quick for me, even when stick blending. But then, I don't do any fancy patterns or intricate designs, just boring old soap.

[edit - I'm referring to lye solution but I believe OP is referring to water as perc. of oils - my bad!]

 

[GemstonePony]

Just to be clear, are you referring to a percentage of water to lye, where the percentages you're giving are the lye? Or are you referring to water percent of oil?

 

[cmzaha]

Some find higher lye concentrations such as 38-45% Lye concentrations slow trace. Well that Never worked for me. I use a 33% Lye Concentration not water as percent of oil most of the time but if I need to slow trace I will go with a 30% Lye Concentration, giving me more liquid, this will slow my trace a little. Trace can depend on other factors such as oil temps and your fatty acid profile or simply the oils you use. My high Palm Oil recipe tends to trace quickly no matter what I do. Some oils such as Neem oil will accelerate trace.

 

[Kathymzr]

Been reading about having trouble with acceleration probably due to prolonged stick blending-increased reaction like car going downhill. That makes sense to me. I use 33% water generally. Can acceleration problems be caused by too little water? I have used 38% water, but that always seemed to take make longer drying time and didn’t seem to affect trace acceleration. I know the forum has addressed this countless times - Ugh! But what results come from 33% water vs 38% water. Basically, does water amount affect acceleration? Will more water give a thinner slower batter?

I just hate going over this again. But something is not clear in this tiny brain of mine!!

I’m referring to % water.

Thank you! The answer seems to be all the above!!! But that’s really what I wanted to hear. Wide latitude to learn—ha!

 

[AliOop]

My recipes do trace faster with less water. I tend to have high lard with some coconut, castor, and maybe a bit of shea or cocoa butter.

 

[shunt2011]

I soap between 30-33% lye concentration and have no issues with my Lard, Coconut, Shea, bit of liquid oil and castor. Generally depends on what I'm doing and the fragrance. I have plenty of time to work in most cases. If I do my Palm I'll generally go about 30% as I find palm move a bit faster than lard.

 

[Kathymzr]

Thank you. I’m glad to have this feedback from everyone! I am the crazy one who doesn’t use palm or animal products (except silk). After FO acceleration experiences, I am careful to use only those known to not accelerate - mostly from Brambleberry, so I can rule that out.

As for oils, I know Caster is a culprit. I use mostly Babassu, Murumuru, Tucuma, Cupuacu, Kokum, Coconut, Tamanu, Baobob, and a variety of typical other soft oils for conditioning. Are there any of these that would be a culprit? I keep generally a S:U range of 48:52 to 50:50. SF of 5%, % water of 33%. Would replacing water with Aloe Juice accelerate? Also definitely learned to add sodium lactate after Lye solution has cooled, not before— have even seen the setting up after adding SL at beginning of Lye mix!! It’s only fast trace I have to solve before moving forward on my artistic skills (aside from stupid mistakes!!)

So hope for continued comments on the acceleration issue!! Again, thank you. Be safe, be well.

 

[atiz]

I have not found aloe to be accelerating.

In general, I can just confirm what the others have said: a lot depends on your oils/butters, and in my experience, mostly on your temperature. With that many hard butters (gosh, they would be super expensive here, maybe it's cheaper for you!), you probably cannot soap very low temp, which is also the case with me -- but for me, even a few degrees can make a difference.
I have soaped with 30%--35% lye concentration, but have not noticed a remarkable difference in trace time.

 

[GemstonePony]

Thank you. I’m glad to have this feedback from everyone! I am the crazy one who doesn’t use palm or animal products (except silk). After FO acceleration experiences, I am careful to use only those known to not accelerate - mostly from Brambleberry, so I can rule that out.

As for oils, I know Caster is a culprit. I use mostly Babassu, Murumuru, Tucuma, Cupuacu, Kokum, Coconut, Tamanu, Baobob, and a variety of typical other soft oils for conditioning. Are there any of these that would be a culprit? I keep generally a S:U range of 48:52 to 50:50. SF of 5%, % water of 33%. Would replacing water with Aloe Juice accelerate? Also definitely learned to add sodium lactate after Lye solution has cooled, not before— have even seen the setting up after adding SL at beginning of Lye mix!! It’s only fast trace I have to solve before moving forward on my artistic skills (aside from stupid mistakes!!)

So hope for continued comments on the acceleration issue!! Again, thank you. Be safe, be well.

You haven't mentioned your technique yet. Usually the biggest factor to acceleration is stick-blending - the more you use it, the faster your batter will continue to accelerate even after you stop using it. Also, some blenders are more powerful than others, so the same technique that brings someone else halfway to emulsion might bring you to thick trace.

 

[Kathymzr]

I am inclined to believe it’s the stick blender too. I really have tried to fix other variables. I will do much more hand stirring—not be so lazy!

I have not found aloe to be accelerating.

In general, I can just confirm what the others have said: a lot depends on your oils/butters, and in my experience, mostly on your temperature. With that many hard butters (gosh, they would be super expensive here, maybe it's cheaper for you!), you probably cannot soap very low temp, which is also the case with me -- but for me, even a few degrees can make a difference.
I have soaped with 30%--35% lye concentration, but have not noticed a remarkable difference in trace time.

Yes, I think you are right. My soap cost is more expensive, but I’m not worried about selling. Likely temperature is best a little hotter. But once I made soap outside when it was 105 in the shade, and after mixing and gelling, I set it on the porch in the shade and it basically melted—haha!!
Thanks about Aloe too-glad to hear that!!

 

[atiz]

Yes, I think you are right. My soap cost is more expensive, but I’m not worried about selling. Likely temperature is best a little hotter. But once I made soap outside when it was 105 in the shade, and after mixing and gelling, I set it on the porch in the shade and it basically melted—haha!!
Thanks about Aloe too-glad to hear that!!

Sorry, I just read back my earlier post and it seems unclear now, I don't want to mislead. In general, the cooler you soap, the slower your trace will be. I don't tend to take exact temperatures, but try to soap as cool as I can. You have a lot of hard butters, so after melting them, wait until they cool down as much as they can without your mixture getting cloudy. (People sometimes worry about false trace; I have never experienced that. It may be thing to look out for -- basically happens when your butters start to re-solidify without tracing.)
Good luck!