Where am I going wrong

[penelopejane]

Hi,
Ever since I have tried to use my beautiful new molds (thick heavy weight silicone in wooden box with lid) and an esky to warm them I have not been able to make a good soap. I have tried every combination of lye conc and additives that have definitely worked before.

So I thought I would revert back to basics and I still can't get it right.

I have just made 2 lots of:
800g EVOO
2 % superfat
248g filtered water
30% lye concentration
111 (106+5) Sodium Hydroxide (5g to compensate for CA)
2 tsp salt to water
8g CA
Added warm NaOH solution to CA and Salt. Added to heated OO
Med trace soap 42*C (107* F) Wrapped in preheated elec blanket in esky 44*C (113* F)
24 hrs later soap is 29* (84*F) and still hasn't fully gelled so I put it back in the mold. Am now worried it will be too hard to cut later and will crack.

One lot had fresh NaOH and one had masterbatched. I warmed the master batched lye and did the same as the above. It was a tiny bit less traced than the other one. The masterbatch lye mix has a cm top of yellowish coloured soap on top of the white soap below. It is not the maths because DH checked it.
Both sides are still not fully gelled (about a 4cm circle of gel in the middle).

Where am I going wrong?
Is it too hot in the esky?
Am I leaving it in the esky too long?
Am I not soaping hot enough?

Please help it is driving me demented.

 

[KristaY]

I'm so sorry for your troubles, PJ. That's SO frustrating!

What's an esky? A type of heating/insulating thing? You're making a castile soap so it'll take a lot longer to firm up. How long has it taken you to unmold and cut this recipe in the past? The silicone liners can slow things down too. What type of mold did you use with previous batches?

I don't think you're soaping too cool since this is castile so you don't have to worry about false trace. Also, I don't see any silicone blisters on the side of the loaf so it hasn't gotten too hot. I am a bit baffled by the darker color on the top of the loaf. Maybe you didn't SB long enough to reach emulsification? Have you zap tested it?

ETA: Have you tried DeeAnna's trick of putting it into the oven and CPOPing it to complete the gel?

 

[Kittish]

An esky is a cooler, or ice chest. She can't use the oven with her new molds, because they're too big.

I second the idea of zap testing that differently colored bit on top.

Maybe also keep the electric blanket turned on longer? Or turn it back on a couple of hours after you put the molds in the esky? Do you have a wooden lid or top your can put over the mold, so the loaf heats and cools evenly from all surfaces? I'm kind of thinking the weird top might be because it's cooling or heating faster than the rest of the soap, because of being less insulated than the sides and bottom (the actual mold provides that insulation).

 

[penelopejane]

Sorry, yes an esky is a cooler. It is a very good cooler that holds ice as ice for days on end. I was thinking it was too good, but if that was the case I wouldn't get partial gel.

I'm too scared to zap test - never done it before - but it didn't burn my bare hands so I think it is ok.

The mold does have a wooden lid. I've always unmolded at 24 hrs or less even with Castile. I've wrapped the entire thing in a towel then in the electric blanket then put in the closed cooler for 24 hrs. I've put this back into the cooler now.

I use to have a BB silicone log mold that I put in a cardboard box, wrapped in a woollen blanket and put in the oven (preheated to 40*C but turned off when put in) and left for 24 hours and it worked perfectly. No matter what the recipe.

I took this one to thin trace. It definitely traced. The other one which didn't have the yellow top I left to sit, gently mixed together with a spoon for 5 mins before SBing.

 

[Seawolfe]

The top view almost looks like alien brains to me - which happens if its too hot (I get it when I CPOP). Silicone and wood do tend to keep the heat in...

 

[Kittish]

I got my first zap test zap the other night. Was curious if it was as unmistakable as everyone says, so I tested a tiny little dab of the batch I made for scales on the challenge a few hours after I made the batch. Absolutely will catch your attention, but if you follow the procedure in the sticky post it doesn't really hurt. Slightly stronger than the tingle you get from a 9v battery, and as sudden as a static shock. Doesn't linger at all.

Here's an idea, if you're inclined to do some testing. If you still have the mold you can use in your oven, make a batch with that and track the temp in your oven as closely as you can (thermometer in the oven, check the temp every hour, record readings). It's trickier to do the same thing for the esky, but if you have or can get something with a probe (like a meat thermometer?) it should work. Compare the temperature readings over the course of 8-12 hours, and adjust as needed to bring the esky in line with the oven.

 

[penelopejane]

The top view almost looks like alien brains to me - which happens if its too hot (I get it when I CPOP). Silicone and wood do tend to keep the heat in...

If it was overheating why wouldn't it gel all the way through?
Have you had "alien brains" when it still didn't gel all the way through?
The max this got to was 44*C (113*F) when I checked it but it could have gone higher in the middle of the night.

Kittish, was hoping to get some help before I wasted more soappy stuff. This is about my 10th attempt.

 

[Kittish]

Kittish, was hoping to get some help before I wasted more soappy stuff. This is about my 10th attempt.

:cry: Wish I had a better answer to offer you. Sorry you're having troubles.

 

[penelopejane]

The top view almost looks like alien brains to me - which happens if its too hot (I get it when I CPOP). Silicone and wood do tend to keep the heat in...

I think you are right. I think I am holding the heat in around the mold for too long. The cooler is too effective. The outside of the soap has set like a rock while the centre has the gel circle. I just have to work out how to get the right procedure to get the right temp with the cooler.

 

[Millie]

Sorry for the nightmare you are going through, I hope you solve the mystery soon!

I'm wondering if you could get away with not adding any heat at all? I always get gel and never CPOP, just insulate. I soap on the warm side though. With your new larger batch size you are generating more heat, so just insulating might work for you now. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

[dixiedragon]

Can you slice it so we can see inside the log?

The problem seems to be entirely on the top. Which is weird. It looks to me like you had some FO not fully blended. Is it possible that as you are scraping the sides of your container that you are finding some pockets of FO or oil that are not fully blended?

In your shoes I would try soaping at a lower temp so the soap stays thinner and so you can blend for longer.

I am also wondering if the construction of the Esky (the pesky esky lol) is making it so more heat is reflected onto the top? Can you put it in the esky, leave it closed for a few minutes and then open it?

 

[Britannic]

Another thing to check is that your scales are accurate, they likely are, but I regularly check mine with a calibration kit to be sure.

 

[penelopejane]

I am also wondering if the construction of the Esky (the pesky esky lol) is making it so more heat is reflected onto the top? Can you put it in the esky, leave it closed for a few minutes and then open it?

Yes I think it is the cooler. It is keeping the soap too hot. made yet another batch and am testing it (watching it like a hawk and taking notes) today.

It looks like partial gel circle inside with a rock hard outer layer.

Another thing to check is that your scales are accurate, they likely are, but I regularly check mine with a calibration kit to be sure.

Thanks for your thoughts. I check mine too!
It's the process that is the problem, this time I think.

 

[KristaY]

Maybe it is your cooler. In winter I started getting areas at the end of my molds that hadn't gelled so I started rolling up wash cloths and tucking them in at the ends. I covered the whole loaf with another thick towel. Worked dandy when it was winter but then spring and summer came along and it wasn't dandy. I ended up with silicone blisters and partial gel in the same loaves. When I stopped using the rolled up wash cloths and just loosely covered with one bath towel, that problem stopped.

 

[Susie]

You can CPOP "after the fact" (thank you, DeeAnna!). Just cut all the bars and put them on a piece of parchment or freezer paper on a baking sheet. Then put them in the oven to heat up. That should cure your partial gel.

 

[penelopejane]

Maybe it is your cooler. In winter I started getting areas at the end of my molds that hadn't gelled so I started rolling up wash cloths and tucking them in at the ends. I covered the whole loaf with another thick towel. Worked dandy when it was winter but then spring and summer came along and it wasn't dandy. I ended up with silicone blisters and partial gel in the same loaves. When I stopped using the rolled up wash cloths and just loosely covered with one bath towel, that problem stopped.

Do you use a cooler? Or are you just wrapping it in less towels in summer?

I have made another batch and am not using the cooler.
I am now going from one extreme (too hot) to the other (too cold).
I heated an electric blanket to 40*C, turned it off and wrapped the covered wooden mold in a towel then wrapped it in the electric blanket.
Nothing happened 5 hrs later so I turned the blanket on for 1 and 1/2 hrs.
Still nothing happening 9 hrs later. Soap itself is 35*. It could get down to 10*C (50*F) tonight in that r
I will leave it overnight.

I usually cut it at 24 hrs if I CPOP it.

 

[shunt2011]

I use the Nurture Molds which are a thicker silicone inside wood molds. I don't CPOP as I have problems everytime, it just doesn't like me. I generally just heat my mold in the oven and then put the silicone liner in just before pouring, I then layer 2-3 towels over the top and always get gel. No problems, unless I use added sugars (more than usual), then I just check on it for overheating. During the winter I sometimes add a heating pad underneath. I too think your problem may b the Esky.

 

[artemis]

You can CPOP "after the fact" (thank you, DeeAnna!). Just cut all the bars and put them on a piece of parchment or freezer paper on a baking sheet. Then put them in the oven to heat up. That should cure your partial gel.

I remember watching a video about this Here's the link:

https://youtu.be/2_8a-nIiHdU

 

[penelopejane]

I use the Nurture Molds which are a thicker silicone inside wood molds. I don't CPOP as I have problems everytime, it just doesn't like me. I generally just heat my mold in the oven and then put the silicone liner in just before pouring, I then layer 2-3 towels over the top and always get gel. No problems, unless I use added sugars (more than usual), then I just check on it for overheating. During the winter I sometimes add a heating pad underneath. I too think your problem may b the Esky.

Thanks shunt, that is very helpful.
I've stopped using the cooler/esky.
When you use the heating pad in winter what temperature do you have it set at and for how long to do keep the heating pad turned on? It is getting to 10*C (50*F) at night here in the soap curing room (spare bedroom).

 

[shunt2011]

Thanks shunt, that is very helpful.
I've stopped using the cooler/esky.
When you use the heating pad in winter what temperature do you have it set at and for how long to do keep the heating pad turned on? It is getting to 10*C (50*F) at night here in the soap curing room (spare bedroom).

I'm not sure, I just turn it to high and let it go until it shuts itself off. Sorry, I've never tested to see how high it goes. Thats a chilly room. I cure mine in a spare room but I know it's warmer than that even in the winter.

I'll have to give it a run and check the temp when I get a chance. Now you have me thinking.

Hope your get your problem worked out. It's so frustrating for you I'm sure.