When did WSP FO's get so expensive?

[jules92207]

They just moved too, new building costs?

 

[navigator9]

They just moved too, new building costs?

There you go, that explains it. I had two favorite farmstands, just little stands by the side of the road. Well....both of them built nice, air conditioned buildings, and their reasonable prices were a thing of the past. Hey, somebody has to pay for that nice new building! Grrrrrrrrrrrr....

 

[SplendorSoaps]

WSP organizes their fragrance oils into categories. They have Standard, Premium, and Signature scents. I spot checked a few of them from the listing in their hard copy "Handmade" magazine listing. It looks like the Standard scents are $17.95/lb. I didn't look at all of them, but spot checked 5 or 6 of them and all were that price. The Premium scents that I spot checked were either $25.95 or $35.95/lb. All of the Signature scents that I checked were $35.95. Granted, there were far more Premium and Signature scents than "Standard," but it looks like there are still some good FO deals to be had.

Personally, I've found that WSP's FOs are a nice quality, and I'm happy to stock up on favorites if I'm also ordering 28 lb. tubs of coconut or palm oil. When I combine with my rebate rewards, that's when the free shipping REALLY makes a difference!

 

[not_ally]

The problem for me, I guess, is that the ones I like the most are either Signature or Premium. I can't break them down b/c I didn't look for them that way and don't even know what categories my favorites fall into (I know they are not Standard, though, b/c they all cost more than $17.95/lb!) I almost never sample/buy an FO that is not well reviewed for sticking (at a minimum, usually I want them to be well-behaved, too), and the positive independent reviews I see, ie; non WSP product reviews, are almost always on the more expensive ones. Not to say that some of their cheaper oils are not well-reviewed, I am just not seeing that. I would be happy to buy one in one of my preferred scent families if I did, though!

I guess I just think that WSP is like most good FO suppliers, some of their FOs are great, some good, some middling, some bad. But at this point WSP is considerably more expensive on standard FO pricing than other good suppliers, and much more so than they used to be. That does make them stand out in a not-so-good way.

ETA: At this point I mostly buy FO's from WSP though, so free shipping on the heavy items (even if they are reasonably priced in the first place - for contra example, see the incredibly expensive lye) does not help me. Yes, for some reason I take their lye prices personally

 

[doriettefarm]

I feel like a broken record but once again I will recommend FragranceBuddy for cost effective alternatives. I've recently noticed many of the FB FOs look to be the same ones Peak sells at a higher price. Yes some of the FB FOs have higher usage rates so it makes me wonder if they are diluting. But the majority I have tried (especially the Lush dupes) are really nice and true to the original.

They're a good deal for me because shipping is fast and if you order more than $75 shipping is free. BB does have a few FOs that I just can't find anywhere else (Tobacco & Bay Leaf) but it seems to take forever and a day to get from WA to AL!

 

[gigisiguenza]

I was mostly talking about the FO's, that is where I have seen the prices going up steeply over the last few years. The other stuff is more hit or miss. Dibbles, if you have Amazon Prime, I like to get coconut oil from there, I get this one: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A2A88ZW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It works out to about $2.50/lb, shipping included. I mostly use lard, CO, OO, and castor, the lard and OO I buy locally (lard, $27 for 50 lbs at Smart and Final - yay! - and OO from Costco). Castor is expensive locally, so I do just wait on that and buy a bunch of bottles at once when I am ordering from one of the on-line 1 stop places. The price on that is usually pretty close w/all of them.

Ally - I wish there was a smart n final in Houston, that's a great price. I'm still trying to find good sources locally, but I don't know any other local soapers, so have very little to go on except my entire hunt n peck experience.

 

[galaxyMLP]

I feel like a broken record but once again I will recommend FragranceBuddy for cost effective alternatives. I've recently noticed many of the FB FOs look to be the same ones Peak sells at a higher price. Yes some of the FB FOs have higher usage rates so it makes me wonder if they are diluting. But the majority I have tried (especially the Lush dupes) are really nice and true to the original.

They're a good deal for me because shipping is fast and if you order more than $75 shipping is free. BB does have a few FOs that I just can't find anywhere else (Tobacco & Bay Leaf) but it seems to take forever and a day to get from WA to AL!

A brand new supplier that I looked up yesterday popped up w/ a tobacco bayleaf FO that sounds like it might be close if not the same as the BB one.

http://www.theflamingcandle.com/can...rance-oil-a-z/tobacco-bay-leaf-fragrance-oil/

Never heard of them but, I might just try the 1 oz tester to see if its the same. The price is MUCH lower!!

FB may list the true usage rates based on the IRFA. I've noticed that many companies will just list an arbitrary 5-10% maximum even if the IRFA usage is higher than that. There are many FO's that have crazy high "acceptable" ussage rates but, that doesnt mean you are going to do that in soap/a B&B product. So, many manufacturers just already cut it down.

As for WSP, yeah, prices seem much higher.

 

[doriettefarm]

Thanks for the tip galaxy! FB has a Tobacco & Bergamot that sounds pretty close so when I deplete my supply of BB Tobacco & Bay Leaf it will be a toss up between the two. I really wish all suppliers would post the MSDS sheet as well as IRFA guidelines . . . it just gives me additional warm-fuzzies when the MSDS info is available. Most of the time I use 1oz of FO ppo but lately I've been more aware/paranoid about usage rates. Most FOs are just fine at that ratio but some need way more or way less so YMMV.

 

[snappyllama]

Their rising prices have made me feel a little better about buying from some suppliers that are a bit pricier. I don't sweat spending a few dollars more and knowing I'll probably love the FO, rather than saving a few pennies and having a 25% chance of being disappointed.

At this point, I'll use them when I need packaging or some additives and might chunk a FO or two in the cart, but I'm not going to be loading up there anymore.

 

[galaxyMLP]

Doriette, Well, I bought the 1 oz size w/the first class shipping. I should get it some time next week. I'll let you know if its the same.

 

[OliveOil2]

Well I will sound like a broken record too, but I second what Doriette said about Fragrance Buddy. I am not saying that every fragrance they have will be the best you ever tried, but the fragrances compare to many that I have spent twice as much for. They do not have elaborate descriptions, but if you follow other soapers reviews there are some great fragrances at fantastic prices. Most of my favorites are from the Moonworks Collection, followed by Lush. Doriette the Bergamot Tobacco is nice, a little different than BB Tobacco Bay Leaf. It is strong and sticks in CP. I made an order for the Labor Day Sale and will post more reviews on the Fragrance Spreadsheet. OOB the Love Spell and the Sun & Sand smell very strong, and exactly like ones that I have spent much more for. I am out of town, so can't compare side by side. As far as WSP there are two of the less expensive bracket that I really like, Pink Grapefruit, and South Pacific Waters. I am starting to see them raise prices on base oils, and things like glycerin, and PKO.

 

[gigisiguenza]

I want to get some bigger quantities of the fragrances I like a lot and have been holding off because of the outrageous shipping costs and the price on the FOs themselves. I will check out Fragrance Buddy. Ty

 

[rparrny]

Don't rule out Ebay for FO. I've found several companies that offer very reasonable samplers, one offering 10/1oz bottles of your choice (and the list was quite long, probably near 50) for $25.99 with free shipping!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-10-O...ee-Shipping-/121634769153?hash=item1c51ff4901
Especially for those of us that don't sell, this is another option...

 

[not_ally]

The only caveat I would raise about Ebay oils - or others from companies that are not well known - is that there is really no way to get independent verification/objective reviews of how well these oils stick in soap. I have tried hundreds of FO's, and from all of those, only use maybe 30 or 40 at all, probably 15 regularly. And those were mostly from well known, established companies, they have their winners and losers, too.

I just found it really frustrating (not to mention expensive) to use an oil and not have it stick past a few days, or even a month or two, I want mine to hang on for dear life! Of course, you still usually have nice, usable soap, but having the scent hang on is so important to me that I almost never buy anymore unless I can check out reviews about them before I do so.

 

[not_ally]

. As far as WSP there are two of the less expensive bracket that I really like, Pink Grapefruit, and South Pacific Waters. I am starting to see them raise prices on base oils, and things like glycerin, and PKO.

OO, I ordered the South Pacific Waters in the last sale and liked it OOB, I am glad that you like it! I noticed the price increase on the PKO, too.

 

[rparrny]

The only caveat I would raise about Ebay oils - or others from companies that are not well known - is that there is really no way to get independent verification/objective reviews of how well these oils stick in soap. I have tried hundreds of FO's, and from all of those, only use maybe 30 or 40 at all, probably 15 regularly. And those were mostly from well known, established companies, they have their winners and losers, too.

A valid point for sure, but not all of these companies are enigmas. Some smaller companies look at ebay to increase their base. Many of them make superior oils so they can compete with the big boys. Either way it's still a risk but the samplers are reasonable and I'm a sucker to help smaller businesses succeed.

 

[not_ally]

R, I'm really not saying that lesser known companies make crappy oils. But I am not talking about the companies per se, I am talking about the oils themselves. If there are no reviews for them, I have no way of knowing if other people have soaped them, what they thought of them six months out, if they stuck/riced/discolored/accelerated, etc.

With the larger companies, I can (or at least try to do so) by checking the boards, and I have foregone many a temptingly described FO based on that! I have just spent so much money on FO's that don't work that for *me* it is kind of crazy not to have some idea of how an oil will work before I use it. I have spent/wasted an awful lot of money on soap related stuff, but probably more on FO's than almost anything else, at least with respect to the wasting part.

I agree that this makes it hard for a new company to break into the market, although it is possible if the owners/founders are themselves soapers, see e.g. Mad Oils. I am much less likely to hold back on buying stuff from them, even without prior information, because I know that the owner really knows what she is talking about, from being one of *us*.

 

[snappyllama]

Ditto to everything not_ally said. At this point in my life (soaping and otherwise), I'd rather pay for known quality than take my chances. Maybe it's because I only make a batch or so a week, if something doesn't behave how I want it to - that's a whole week's worth of disappointment. Am I overpaying? For sure! I don't have time/inclination to to test 50 strawberry samples looking for the one that might work for $5. If I see one that gets great reviews for $15 - that's the one for me. If it's from a company I think will be around in a year, with a physical location and a reputation to protect - even better. I'll gladly pay a bit more for that reassurance.

That said - I'm on the hunt for a non-discoloring strawberry and will have to go the whole test them all out route next spring. I'll post results to pay it forward on all the fantastic testing y'all have so generously shared with me. <Grumble> strawberry shouldn't be hard to find <grumble, grumble>

 

[rparrny]

I hear you both and your right...but I'm more of a risk taker, experimenter....
Remember...YOU guys are the ones that adulterated me on FOs to begin with! :smile:

I have only started using them so I have no idea what I like. As far as longevity...no soap has lasted as long as six months in this house, they get used, given away or confiscated...
I have ordered some FOs from the better known companies, but so far have only used two...and waiting for others to arrive. If I find one I absolutely love, like everyone else I will suck it up and pay the price...
But what if that one I love comes from a little company with a little price...?

 

[doriettefarm]

I would only hesitate to buy from an ebay supplier because I'd be afraid I couldn't get more if I really liked it! And ditto what not_ally said about no reviews on how they perform in CP as far as discoloration, acceleration, scent retention, etc. I guess I'm such a FO HO now that I need to be sure of a steady supply at a decent price . . . is there a 12 step program for fragrances?