I've read lots of forums on this board about SF. I understand the higher the SF the less chance there is of un-desolved lye, however my confusion is do some oils in a recipe make it desirable to have a higher SF number. The recipe I am working on now (CP) has avocado oil, palm oil and mango butter in it. Is there a rule of thumb? Would it be advisable to have a higher water % if your SF is raised? I love making soap but I get frustrated when batches don't turn out. I feel I just need to have a better understanding of what I am doing.
What SF number to use?
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It's hard to state a ROT since everyone's skin is different. I have a nephew who can tolerate much more drying soap than I could. Those three oils you listed aren't ones which become drying when saponified so 5% might be fine depending on the percentages of any 'drying' oils like coconut oil, palm kernel oil or babassu oil. When I'm using a high percentage of coconut, I always increase the lye discount to at least 18% (except for the batch I used ACV in which was 12%).
I have a ROT for myself which I've developed over time and from experimenting with numerous batches. When I make all vegetable oil soap, I use a SF of 7%-8% depending on the olive percentage. The larger the percentage of olive, the lower the SF since olive is so conditioning. Later I tried lard and found it to be much more conditioning than what I assumed it would be based upon the property values. So, I use 5% with any batch which has lard in it. I reduce the superfat if I'm adding dairy products like heavy cream, yogurt, etc by 1% or 2% depending on the fat content. Heavy cream has more fat so I reduce by 2%. An example - I would use 3% for a batch made with heavy cream and lard but 4% for heavy cream and all veg oils. I generally don't reduce SF at all if I'm using buttermilk since it has a lower fat content.
This is just what I do. Other people might find my superfat percentages too high based on their skin type. I can't stress experimenting enough since what one person loves, another person may think is the worst soap in the world.
You need to know the properties of oils after saponification and how your skin reacts to certain oils to determine what lye discount or superfat to use. Some sites which have good info about soapmaking oils are Summer Bee Meadow and Soap Making Essentials.
Then it comes down to experimenting with different percentages to see what you like best.
HTH
I have a ROT for myself which I've developed over time and from experimenting with numerous batches. When I make all vegetable oil soap, I use a SF of 7%-8% depending on the olive percentage. The larger the percentage of olive, the lower the SF since olive is so conditioning. Later I tried lard and found it to be much more conditioning than what I assumed it would be based upon the property values. So, I use 5% with any batch which has lard in it. I reduce the superfat if I'm adding dairy products like heavy cream, yogurt, etc by 1% or 2% depending on the fat content. Heavy cream has more fat so I reduce by 2%. An example - I would use 3% for a batch made with heavy cream and lard but 4% for heavy cream and all veg oils. I generally don't reduce SF at all if I'm using buttermilk since it has a lower fat content.
This is just what I do. Other people might find my superfat percentages too high based on their skin type. I can't stress experimenting enough since what one person loves, another person may think is the worst soap in the world.
You need to know the properties of oils after saponification and how your skin reacts to certain oils to determine what lye discount or superfat to use. Some sites which have good info about soapmaking oils are Summer Bee Meadow and Soap Making Essentials.
Then it comes down to experimenting with different percentages to see what you like best.
HTH
I agree with Hazel- it's hard to state a set-in-stone, rule-of-thumb superfat across the board since everyone's skin is different.
Having said that, though, here are some general guidelines to keep in mind that can help you in formulating:
1) The higher % of cleansing/bubbly oils you have in your formula (i.e. coconut oil, PKO, babassu), the more drying the soap will feel to your skin. Whenever I make a soap with a high amount of cleansing/bubbly oils, I always go higher on my superfat % to compensate.
2) Using too much of any of the oils/fats that contain a high amount of linoleic acid in your formula (i.e., soy, hemp, canola, etc..) can increase the chances of your soap succumbing to DOS (the dreaded orange spots). I've read that many soapers like to keep the total linoleic acid content of their formula from going too much over 15% to keep the DOS monster at bay. Soaps with a higher % of linoleic do better with a lower superfat of round 5% or so for the same reason, especially if one lives in a humid climate. But again- this is not to be taken as a 'written-in-stone edict. Several variables may be at play depending on any individual's soaper's preferences, the climate they live in, etc...
I guess if there is any sort of set-in-stone rule-of-thumb to be had, it is this: Expect that there will be exceptions to every 'rule'.
IrishLass
Having said that, though, here are some general guidelines to keep in mind that can help you in formulating:
1) The higher % of cleansing/bubbly oils you have in your formula (i.e. coconut oil, PKO, babassu), the more drying the soap will feel to your skin. Whenever I make a soap with a high amount of cleansing/bubbly oils, I always go higher on my superfat % to compensate.
2) Using too much of any of the oils/fats that contain a high amount of linoleic acid in your formula (i.e., soy, hemp, canola, etc..) can increase the chances of your soap succumbing to DOS (the dreaded orange spots). I've read that many soapers like to keep the total linoleic acid content of their formula from going too much over 15% to keep the DOS monster at bay. Soaps with a higher % of linoleic do better with a lower superfat of round 5% or so for the same reason, especially if one lives in a humid climate. But again- this is not to be taken as a 'written-in-stone edict. Several variables may be at play depending on any individual's soaper's preferences, the climate they live in, etc...
I guess if there is any sort of set-in-stone rule-of-thumb to be had, it is this: Expect that there will be exceptions to every 'rule'.
IrishLass
So true about the fact that there will be exceptions to every rule. I've noticed some recipes call for a higher % of water. I know more water gives you more workability for swirling - is there any other reason? Thank so much for all your help.
More water will give you more swirlability, but you can still get beautiful swirls with a lesser amount of water as long as you are working with a well-behaved FO. My usual 'go-to' water amount is a 33% lye solution (1 part lye to 2 parts water), and I'm able to get lovely swirls with it.
The only times I use more water than my usual 33% lye solution are when I'm working with a naughty, fast-moving FO (more water slows it down for me), or when I'm HPing my batch (more water gives me a smoother pour).
IrishLass
The only times I use more water than my usual 33% lye solution are when I'm working with a naughty, fast-moving FO (more water slows it down for me), or when I'm HPing my batch (more water gives me a smoother pour).
IrishLass
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Well, sf is a personal preference... totally.
Rule of thumb, higher co, babassu, or pko, higher sf needed.
Another rule, higher sf decreases bubbly lather and good lather in general. A recipe with 5% sf bubbles better than 8% (anyone have the link for additive testing handy??). Co makes tons of bubbles, and is drying thus higher sf doesn't kill its massive bubbles and helps with drying.
I found 10-20% CO or other drying oil does well for me with 5% sf.
For me, 20-26% co does fine with 7-8% sf.
Never mastered the salt bar with 70-80% co...so no help there. Next project.
Water amount helps slow trace and slows hardening in return if used in high amounts.
Remember butters reduce lather, so a lower sf like 4-6% would be helpful in keeping the lather alive in a high butter soap.
Finally, I agree with hazel on milks. I am still experimenting, but a 6% sf with goat's milk seems borderline high. I am doing 5% now and awaiting those soaps.
I used heavy cream at 5% and I agree with dropping it to 4, or 3 1/2% even based on the high fat content.
So it takes trial and error on specific formulas to find the perfect sf.
It isn't based so much on rules as it is on specific formulas and personal preferences for those formulas.
I'll try to get the link to the additive tests with the exact same recipe at 5% and 8% sf so you can see the bubbles difference.
Gl with it!!!
Rule of thumb, higher co, babassu, or pko, higher sf needed.
Another rule, higher sf decreases bubbly lather and good lather in general. A recipe with 5% sf bubbles better than 8% (anyone have the link for additive testing handy??). Co makes tons of bubbles, and is drying thus higher sf doesn't kill its massive bubbles and helps with drying.
I found 10-20% CO or other drying oil does well for me with 5% sf.
For me, 20-26% co does fine with 7-8% sf.
Never mastered the salt bar with 70-80% co...so no help there. Next project.
Water amount helps slow trace and slows hardening in return if used in high amounts.
Remember butters reduce lather, so a lower sf like 4-6% would be helpful in keeping the lather alive in a high butter soap.
Finally, I agree with hazel on milks. I am still experimenting, but a 6% sf with goat's milk seems borderline high. I am doing 5% now and awaiting those soaps.
I used heavy cream at 5% and I agree with dropping it to 4, or 3 1/2% even based on the high fat content.
So it takes trial and error on specific formulas to find the perfect sf.
It isn't based so much on rules as it is on specific formulas and personal preferences for those formulas.
I'll try to get the link to the additive tests with the exact same recipe at 5% and 8% sf so you can see the bubbles difference.
Gl with it!!!
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Here's the pics
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/amathiasoapworks/sets/72157629324839760/
Control soap 1 has 8% sf
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/amathiasoapworks/7024618159/in/set-72157629324839760/
Control 1A has 5%
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/amathiasoapworks/6878519454/in/set-72157629324839760/
Hope this works.
So you can see, basically lower sf equates less free oils weighing down lather. Higher sf has more free oils for conditioning skin, but lathers less. Good for stripping oils that are highly cleansing like co babassu and pko, yet hindering for low lather oils and especially butters
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/amathiasoapworks/sets/72157629324839760/
Control soap 1 has 8% sf
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/amathiasoapworks/7024618159/in/set-72157629324839760/
Control 1A has 5%
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/amathiasoapworks/6878519454/in/set-72157629324839760/
Hope this works.
So you can see, basically lower sf equates less free oils weighing down lather. Higher sf has more free oils for conditioning skin, but lathers less. Good for stripping oils that are highly cleansing like co babassu and pko, yet hindering for low lather oils and especially butters
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