Wax Question

[MarnieSoapien]

I decided to give wax a try. After some research, I found cosmetic grade, non-GMO rapeseed (Canola) wax, which was being promoted as an alternative to soy wax. I wanted to give it a try and ordered 2 kilos (the distributor was having a 2 for 1 sale). I've used it at 10% in my soap recipe and want to know if anyone using soy wax has similar experiences.
It was business as usual, mix lye and water, let cool while melting other oils. At around 42 C the oils went from translucent to opaque. I added my lye water and mixed briefly using my stick blender, it seemed to go from liquid to thin-medium trace in 15 seconds. I added some color and FO and hand mixed those in. By the time I was ready to pour into my mold, I had mashed potatoes on my hands.
Is this normal? Should I be soaping at a higher temp? Should I blame my FO?
I'm not ready to give up on my RS wax... yet. I'm going to give it another try or 2 before I start looking into alternatives.

Recipe:
Coconut Oil (94 deg) -23% -114 g
Shea -19% - 95
Castor - 13% - 65
Hemp - 13% -65
Rapeseed Wax - 12% - 60
Olive Pomace - 10% - 50
Sweet Almond Oil - 10% - 50

Water 137 g
Lye - 69 g

FO - 10 g Green Moss and Ferns from Just A Soap

Thanks for any input or suggestions.

 

[midnightsoaper]

I've never used rapeseed wax, but a quick google search tells me the melt point is 45-68C. I think you just soaped way too cool. I did the same thing when I forgot I was using soy wax. It was like instant trace and I couldn't get everything mixed in.

 

[Dean]

I decided to give wax a try. After some research, I found cosmetic grade, non-GMO rapeseed (Canola) wax, which was being promoted as an alternative to soy wax. I wanted to give it a try and ordered 2 kilos (the distributor was having a 2 for 1 sale). I've used it at 10% in my soap recipe and want to know if anyone using soy wax has similar experiences.
It was business as usual, mix lye and water, let cool while melting other oils. At around 42 C the oils went from translucent to opaque. I added my lye water and mixed briefly using my stick blender, it seemed to go from liquid to thin-medium trace in 15 seconds. I added some color and FO and hand mixed those in. By the time I was ready to pour into my mold, I had mashed potatoes on my hands.
Is this normal? Should I be soaping at a higher temp? Should I blame my FO?
I'm not ready to give up on my RS wax... yet. I'm going to give it another try or 2 before I start looking into alternatives.

Recipe:
Coconut Oil (94 deg) -23% -114 g
Shea -19% - 95
Castor - 13% - 65
Hemp - 13% -65
Rapeseed Wax - 12% - 60
Olive Pomace - 10% - 50
Sweet Almond Oil - 10% - 50

Water 137 g
Lye - 69 g

FO - 10 g Green Moss and Ferns from Just A Soap

Thanks for any input or suggestions.

I decided to give wax a try. After some research, I found cosmetic grade, non-GMO rapeseed (Canola) wax, which was being promoted as an alternative to soy wax. I wanted to give it a try and ordered 2 kilos (the distributor was having a 2 for 1 sale). I've used it at 10% in my soap recipe and want to know if anyone using soy wax has similar experiences.
It was business as usual, mix lye and water, let cool while melting other oils. At around 42 C the oils went from translucent to opaque. I added my lye water and mixed briefly using my stick blender, it seemed to go from liquid to thin-medium trace in 15 seconds. I added some color and FO and hand mixed those in. By the time I was ready to pour into my mold, I had mashed potatoes on my hands.
Is this normal? Should I be soaping at a higher temp? Should I blame my FO?
I'm not ready to give up on my RS wax... yet. I'm going to give it another try or 2 before I start looking into alternatives.

Recipe:
Coconut Oil (94 deg) -23% -114 g
Shea -19% - 95
Castor - 13% - 65
Hemp - 13% -65
Rapeseed Wax - 12% - 60
Olive Pomace - 10% - 50
Sweet Almond Oil - 10% - 50

Water 137 g
Lye - 69 g

FO - 10 g Green Moss and Ferns from Just A Soap

Thanks for any input or suggestions.

Cool find! Is the vendo in the States? Who is it?

 

[penelopejane]

I agree you soaped too cool. I think that much castor oil is going to speed trace (and make a soft, sticky soap) as well. I use max 5%. Pomace also speeds trace.

You can melt your wax and mix with some of the batch oils to reduce the temp a bit but you still need to soap warmer. When the oils went opaque - that was your warning.

I think you might need to go to 20% wax to make a clear difference in hardness.

 

[MarnieSoapien]

Cool find! Is the vendo in the States? Who is it?

It is a company out of the Netherlands. Soapqueen.nl is the site, not affiliated with Anne Marie and BB as far as I can tell. Here's a link to the wax https://www.soapqueen.eu/a-44402116/waxes/pm-offer-rapeseed-wax-eco-cosmetic-100-natural-obw053/

 

[earlene]

I use soy wax and the melting point is the key when determining how much heat you need to keep your soap batter from giving me a false trace. My soy wax has a melting point of 121-125° F which is about 49-51 °C. I looked up rapeseed wax and found various melting points, one was 42°C while another was 68°C, so you may be soaping too cool, depending on how your's is graded. And although pomace speeds trace, 10% isn't enough to matter, however, CO heats up fast, so trace comes faster, and Castor also speeds trace. So all things considered, I am not surprised you it moved so fast.

Since I don't use that much CO, nor that much Castor, I can't compare my experience to yours, as our recipes are vastly different. But I have not had my soaps with soy turn to mashed potatoes ever.

I'd suggest trying a small without a fragrance or one you know for sure does not accelerate and soap at a temperature in line with the manufacturer's stated melting point for the product you purchased. If you can't find that, then take the wax's temperature when it is finished melting and clear, and try and keep your other ingredients at that same temp when you soap that recipe.

 

[Iluminameluna]

This may be a silly question, but why use so much wax?
My recipes, regardless of oils, have 5% each of castor oil and soy wax, and none have accelerated. However, I don't have pomace so I can't speak to that. And my CO is 76F type.
I only heat my wax in my palm shortening until the wax has cleared and most, but not all, my shortening has melted.
I hope this helps someone.

 

[Dean]

This may be a silly question, but why use so much wax?
My recipes, regardless of oils, have 5% each of castor oil and soy wax, and none have accelerated. However, I don't have pomace so I can't speak to that. And my CO is 76F type.
I only heat my wax in my palm shortening until the wax has cleared and most, but not all, my shortening has melted.
I hope this helps someone.

Who r u replying to? Its not about the amt of
SW but ur desired hardness.

 

[Iluminameluna]

Who r u replying to? Its not about the amt of
SW but ur desired hardness.

If I posted my reply in the wrong way, I apologize. I'm still sort of new at posting in forums.

The OP, who asked about her particular issue, and if anyone else used rapeseed wax or soy and their experiences with it, or them.
I can't for the life of me remember who said or posted about using less than 10% of wax in a recipe if you don't want a speedy one.

 

[MarnieSoapien]

Update: I took @penelopejane recommendations and tweaked my recipe a bit. My oils were at 52.8 when I added my lye water, I stick blended to a light trace and poured into my molds, by the time I got to my last mold the batter had thickened up to a medium trace. I did not add any FO or colorants. I left them uncovered and when I checked on them this morning, they had gone thru a partial gel phase. No mashed potatoes this time, so I'm counting that as a win!

@earlene you are right, I need to do more research on this particular type of wax to find the melting point. I got totally spoiled with having well behaved recipes in the past. I will continue to tweak the recipe until I find something that works. I really want to make pretty swirls, not lumpy potatoes.

@Iluminameluna my recipe doesn't contain any palm or tallow and the test batches I had made in the past were too soft. I was looking for alternatives and found rapeseed wax. My original recipe had the wax at 12% which isn't that high, since I know some people who use soy wax at 40%. Right now, it seems that I'm the only one here using rapeseed wax, so this is all trial and error.

 

[earlene]

This may be a silly question, but why use so much wax?
My recipes, regardless of oils, have 5% each of castor oil and soy wax, and none have accelerated. However, I don't have pomace so I can't speak to that. And my CO is 76F type.
I only heat my wax in my palm shortening until the wax has cleared and most, but not all, my shortening has melted.
I hope this helps someone.

Use of jojoba at 5% seems a good suggestion, although many people say it is wasted in soap and better used in leave-on products. But Soy Wax can be used a fairly high percentages to harden soap. In the absence of palm and animal fats, it's an alternative for a harder bar of soap. I usually use it at no less than 30% when I use it. I believe Dean uses it at 40%.

 

[penelopejane]

Update: I took @penelopejane recommendations and tweaked my recipe a bit. My oils were at 52.8 when I added my lye water, I stick blended to a light trace and poured into my molds, by the time I got to my last mold the batter had thickened up to a medium trace. I did not add any FO or colorants. I left them uncovered and when I checked on them this morning, they had gone thru a partial gel phase. No mashed potatoes this time, so I'm counting that as a win!]

I think 56*C is too hot.
What you might try is melting your wax with 1/4 cup of the recipe oils. Warming your oils to about 40*c and cooling your lye to the same. SB your melted wax mixture into your oils. Then add your lye. Then SB only to emulsion (very carefully and slowly waiting inbetween short bursts of SB), divide, colour and swirl.

You are getting partial gel so cover your mold with a small cardboard box and cover that with a towel and leave for 12-18 hours.

Castor at 13% could be causing some of your softness and it could cause stickiness too. I’d drop it to 5%.

I’d also increase your OO. It will make a very hard bar over time. It doesn’t register on the sopacalc numbers so you just have to know it will be hard in 3 months and harder still as time goes by even mixed with other oils.