Using a mold with divider and bars not coming easily

[Jamison]

This mold I'm using (linerless) is suppose to allow one to remove the bars with ease 12-24 hours after pouring. Even after 3-4 days I am still needing to cut the bars from the mold. I have spoke to the maker of the mold many times trying to figure out why I'm not able to do this.

The first adjustment he had me do was displace 1oz of oil for water. No change so he had me do another ounce. I am still having the same issues with the bars not shrinking enough.


After the pour, the mold goes into the oven at 160 degrees and sits there for 12 hours (I usually leave it longer), then I'm suppose to be able to easily break the mold down from around the soap. I am not able to do this and the soap is stuck to the sides of the mold.

Any suggestions here? (I'm sure there's info needed I'm leaving out for an answer, so ask away)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/847/mold1.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/199/mold2.jpg/

 

[AmyW]

Need your recipe to help best

 

[carebear]

Different tips for different manufacturers. Who made the mold?

 

[newbie]

And could you clarify what you meant by displacing one ounce of oil for water? Did he suggest that you decrease your oils by one ounce and increase the water by one ounce? If so, did you adjust your lye?

eta: does this divider come apart or is it all one piece?

 

[Jamison]

The divider portion breaks down strips. The bars should remove easily from it, but I am pulling each part out at at a time with pliers now. And having to cut it from the sides and off the bottom panel.

And yes, he told me to reduce oil and add water, but not to adjust the amount of sodium hydroxide used. His thought was to add more water that would evaporate allowing the bar to shrink more.


The recipe:
44% olive oil
22% palm oil
15% coconut oil
8% hemp oil
4% castor oil
4% grapeseed oil

 

[carebear]

First off, the reco that you reduce the oils is kinda scary to me. What level of lye discount did you end up with, then? And even if reducing the oils would help, adding water would likely make it worse. Makes no sense. To me. Anyone else find this odd?

Evaporation takes TIME, so that wouldn't speed up getting the soap out of the mold. Reducing the oil could lead to lye heavy soap, or at least not the superfat in which you are interested.

Did he at least talk to you about lubricating your mold? Lining it? Did he give any advice about the MOLD? Those molds can be challenging, but there is nothing wrong with your formula.

That recipe is not one I would expect much trouble with, but tell us how much water and lye you used and actual amounts of the oils.

ETA: those look like my logan bear molds, but I don't think he would ever give that advice and he's not making molds any longer. are they his?

 

[Jamison]

This is a guy out of the Northwest making them and he's still at it. He sells on ebay. They are a liner-less mold and he said he's been making them for years the same way and never had a problem like I'm experiencing. The point of his products is that you are not suppose to have to line them. I purchased this mold to cut down on the overall process. He also makes soap himself. He's more than willing to talk to me on the phone and help with my issues as well, but I wanted a second opinion on his suggestions.

I was concerned about changing the recipe as well, but he said a couple ounce variation tweak in it wouldn't make much of a difference since climates and other variables are not taken into account with online calculators.

I used the amount of lye and water the calculator on here said to use. But with the adjustments he said to make, I only added a little more water and left the lye where the calculator said to have it. So I took off 2oz of olive oil and added 2oz of water. He said this should make the bars evaporate and shrink more.

 

[Jamison]

I've wanted to buy a few more of these molds, but have held back due to this issue.

 

[carebear]

cutting the oil is pretty much the same as increasing the lye.

NW? ah, well if it's Mr DoRight he's had many complaints.

 

[Jamison]

He's in Washington... That name sounds familiar, but I don't see that on ebay at all.

What kind of complaints?

 

[ChrissyB]

I use sodium lactate in my divider moulds (Nizzy's) and haven't had this issue since.

 

[Jamison]

I use sodium lactate in my divider moulds (Nizzy's) and haven't had this issue since.

What is that? I'm not familiar w/ that mold either.


There really are some issues with this piece I tried to bring up to him. The 'openings' for the rods should be deeper. EVERY batch I make, the rod falls off in the oven. It happens after the soap has set up enough, but that shouldn't be happening. These molds are $70 each and I kinda would expect such a thing to perform better.




So with a reduction of 2oz of oil and not adjusting the lye... how big of deal is this going to be for the finished product?

 

[AmyW]

I wouldn't walk, I'd run, away from this guy to be honest.

Others here can suggest better mold makers.

For the oil, I am math stupid but I'm guessing since it's a big batch, you at least will not be lye heavy. What did you SF at? Even if it was just 5%, it shouldn't drop it below 4%... someone correct me if I'm wrong.

But, I would NOT use that method again, it's far too risky.

 

[Jamison]

I don't SF actually.... I have never understood it fully or how to do it. :-/

My soap is really nice though, everyone loves it.

 

[AmyW]

Can you post your exact recipe, exact oil, water, and lye amount? You are superfatting and just don't know it. It's really important you know how this stuff works.

Have you used a lye calculator before? This is basic stuff I highly suggest you learn about before going any further

 

[KnowWhat]

Im only guessing, but since its an 18 bar mold, you're probably using 72 ounces of oil.
Since you don't know your superfat %, I'd guess you used the standard 5%. By changing out 2 ounces of oils, you could have changed your superfat to only 2%, which would be a really drying soap. (I'd only use that to scrub my bathtubs)
Do us a favor and let us know who built those so we can all avoid him.

 

[Jamison]

Im only guessing, but since its an 18 bar mold, you're probably using 72 ounces of oil.
Since you don't know your superfat %, I'd guess you used the standard 5%. By changing out 2 ounces of oils, you could have changed your superfat to only 2%, which would be a really drying soap. (I'd only use that to scrub my bathtubs)
Do us a favor and let us know who built those so we can all avoid him.

Right about 70oz, yes... the bars weigh just over 5oz when cured.

It sounds like my recipe would have been defaulted to 5%. You really think just that slight variation would make the soap too drying?

 

[AmyW]

I know of several soapers that do 3-4% SF. As long as they is some SF, it's safe. Your posted that everyone likes it, so it's ok. Just don't do it again (I think I've said that a few times now LOL).

And yes, who is the maker so we can stay far away.

 

[Jamison]

I know of several soapers that do 3-4% SF. As long as they is some SF, it's safe. Your posted that everyone likes it, so it's ok. Just don't do it again (I think I've said that a few times now LOL).

And yes, who is the maker so we can stay far away.

Yeah, but not everyone is saying that. Just wanting to make sure this soap doesn't create problems for folks.

It's the only company I've seen on ebay making molds like this. He makes loaf style ones too. 'Linerless'

 

[janie]

I almost bought that mold til some peeps on here guided me not to (mr do right mold?)
I love the bramble berry slab mold. Even though it says it does not need lined I still line mine with freezer paper. Try it next time, works like a dream.