UK source of Na4-EDTA?

[DanielCoffey]

I have been trying to find a non-business source of Tetrasodium EDTA in the UK without success. All I can find are the wholesalers who clearly state they are for commercial customers only.

Any pointers for small quantities (c. 100g) of EDTA in the UK?

 

[SaltedFig]

In the UK it's more often sold under one of it's other names "ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid"

This company sells it in 100g lots, there's probably others.
https://mistralni.co.uk/products/edta-ethylenediaminetetraacetic-acid-dissolvine-z

 

[DanielCoffey]

Thanks - I had spotted that site but on their home page they refuse to sell to individuals and direct to their "household products" sister page that doesn't include EDTA.

 

[SaltedFig]

Amazon UK 100g 4pound59p: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00BX1XOLW/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

eBay UK 200g 9pound99p: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200g-EDTA...inetetraacetic-acid-top-quality-/130820963952

ReAgent Chem UK 500g 39pound60p: http://www.chemicals.co.uk/edta (maybe call and ask them, they might send you a sample size)

Hope this helps - I'll leave the rest to you I think.

 

[DanielCoffey]

Those listings are for the di-sodium edta... I believe we need the tetra-sodium edta for our soaps but I will have a look at those sellers to see if they have the correct item.

Cheers.

 

[SaltedFig]

Those listings are for the di-sodium edta... I believe we need the tetra-sodium edta for our soaps but I will have a look at those sellers to see if they have the correct item.

Cheers.

Ah, sorry, not being someone that uses it myself, I was looking in general, not for the specific form.

I did have another thought - maybe chat with your doctor - is it the same ingredient that is used in lead poisoning cases - maybe they can help.

Not sure what the status is in the UK for use (too sore to keep looking) - that might explain why you can't (easily) find it.

 

[DanielCoffey]

I did find some ebay sellers offering tetra-sodium edta in small amounts from 50g but it was relatively low purity (86%) when compared to the commercial stuff (100%). I suspect a lot of the difference will be water but I will avoid ebay for now.

 

[earlene]

Those listings are for the di-sodium edta... I believe we need the tetra-sodium edta for our soaps but I will have a look at those sellers to see if they have the correct item.

Cheers.

I have purchased tetrasodium edta from Amazon in the US, so I know it is available, but when I search the Amazon UK site, I don't see it listed. Perhaps they aren't allowed to sell it in the UK?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

If using EDTA in soap, it's not necessary. Those who use it have reason to add it to their formulas. I don't use it; I've never used it; I don't plan on ever using it in the future. My thinking, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." LOL My advice, skip it.

HTH :bunny:
​

 

[earlene]

If using EDTA in soap, it's not necessary. Those who use it have reason to add it to their formulas. I don't use it; I've never used it; I don't plan on ever using it in the future. My thinking, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." LOL My advice, skip it.

HTH :bunny:
​

There are good reasons to use it. One is that as Dr. Kevin Dunn found and reported here as a DOS inhibitor, a combination of EDTA and ROE is excellent.

It is also a chelator and helps reduce soap scum, as well as boosting bubbles.

So EDTA is a useful additive. I was not interested in using it at first myself, but when faced with DOS with a couple of my soaps, I decided to find a useful preventative. Then the added bonus of reducing soap scum (which I hate cleaning) and boosting bubbles, it was one item I decided to add and will probably never turn back.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

There are good reasons to use it.

Oh dear, Earlene, I thought I was quite clear -- I wrote, "Those who use it have reason to add it to their formulas." I totally understand the benefits. In a previous thread on the subject, I referenced a study on DOS in a HSCC Newsletter that has since been referenced by others.

I hope we can agree that it's not a necessary part of a soap formula. Yes? I fear for Newbies (like poor Daniel) who may think they can't make soap without it.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I fear for Newbies (like poor Daniel) who may think they can't make soap without it...."

I think your manner is rather condescending, Zany. Have you any reason to think Daniel is so poor and clueless that he is in need of your defense? He comes across as a competent adult to me.

 

[DanielCoffey]

It is actually interesting and worthwhile hearing about the opinions on soap additives. I don't mind the discussion.

In this specific case, I was considering the tetrasodium EDTA for helping reduce soap scum in a shaving soap so that it might not clog brushes so much. I am more than happy to make the first batch without it. In fact that is probably an excellent idea as it will allow me to make an informed comparison.

My current commercial soap (Proraso) is of course loaded with lots of things with poly-syllable names (including the EDTA) so I am used to the amount of cleanup I have to do after a shave.

The only catch is, of course, its availability in the UK. If the choice is between doing without or having to buy low quality EDTA from an unknown ebay seller, I will do without. I just wish I knew if it was hard to find due to regulations or not. I will ask the Mistralni company if they have any information about it.

 

[SaltedFig]

Ok. Headache/migraine has receded a bit … hopefully I will be of more use today!

It looks like there’s no restrictions for the use of Tetrasodium [FONT=&quot]ethylenediaminetetraacetate, going by the government documents below.[/FONT]

Your government references the EU regulations in this: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ent_data/file/472672/10-761-guide-to-cpsr.pdf

The EU regulations are here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32006D0257&from=EN

In the EU document, this is listed without any restrictions noted:
[FONT=&quot]INCI name: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]TETRASODIUM EDTA[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]INN name: edetate sodium[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]CAS No 64-02-8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]EINECS/ELINCS No 200-573-9[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Chem/IUPAC Name [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Tetrasodium ethylenediaminetetraacetate[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]So, it's just a matter of finding a way to purchase it! (Acros Organics are another supplier of 98% in 250g lots, but same problem, in that it's for businesses).
[/FONT]

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

DOS is not usually an issue for a shaving soap (just keep your batches small so you can use it within a year or so!) so for chelating you can just use sodium citrate - easy to make (not sure about finding it in the UK) and does the job well.

 

[earlene]

Oh dear, Earlene, I thought I was quite clear -- I wrote, "Those who use it have reason to add it to their formulas." I totally understand the benefits. In a previous thread on the subject, I referenced a study on DOS in a HSCC Newsletter that has since been referenced by others.

I hope we can agree that it's not a necessary part of a soap formula. Yes? I fear for Newbies (like poor Daniel) who may think they can't make soap without it.

Yes, you did, and that article has been referenced here at SMF many times by many members since it was first published, and it is also written by Dr. Kevin Dunn, whom I have referenced many times myself. I am glad we can all agree on his expertise in the field.

I am sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you personally. Perhaps it is my own personal objection to the phrase 'If it Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It' that raised my hackles. I have to admit, IMO it is an overused blasé phrase that does raise my hackles. I won't go into that.

But even if my response was elicited in part by a phrase I don't like, I also felt it appropriate to address valid reasons for using EDTA, since you gave advice to skip it without taking into account the reasons for using it.

So, please, no hard feelings.

 

[DanielCoffey]

I have just had an informative chat with one of the UK-based sellers on eBay about the tetrasodium EDTA.

I asked what made up the rest of the ">84% EDTA" in his listing, whether it was simply absorbed water or if it was blended with something. He very quickly replied that I was correct and it was nothing more than absorbed water because his bulk product was not stored in dessicated conditions.

Since he clearly labelled the product I have decided to buy a 100g vacuum packed bag and will report back on what I receive.

I will adjust the recipe to make sure I get the correct EDTA amount but since it only contains 0.5% of the total batch weight, the extra water will be very small indeed.

 

[DeeAnna]

The amount of EDTA in a batch is so very small, and EDTA powder is hygroscopic, and I don't care to inhale EDTA powder if I can avoid it, so I make a solution of 50% EDTA in distilled water and add that when I make soap. The mixture keeps well in an air tight container -- I use an 8 ounce (250 mL) squeeze bottle. See https://classicbells.com/soap/EDTA.html I store extra EDTA powder in an airtight container with a desiccator pack to reduce the humidity.

Being a geeky science-y sort of person, I calculate and account for the water added to the recipe by my EDTA solution. Not everyone does, so YMMV on that.

 

[nframe]

I got mine from:

https://mistralni.co.uk/products/edta-na4-ethylenediaminetetraacetic-acid-tetra-sod

 

[DanielCoffey]

Thanks but now Mistralni state on their main page they do not sell to individuals.