Trace & Temperatures

[Firefly24]

I am new to CP soap making. I made my 2nd batch of soap. My oils and lye water were in the 82-88 degree range. It traced really fast but looks good today. I still have not unmolded or cut. Is there a perfect temperature to use so it does not trace so fast? I am posting a photo.

 

[artemis]

Most common things that speed up trace (only according to my own experience)

1. Too much stick blending. Just pulse and stir.

2. Misbehaving fragrance oil. Read the reviews to see if others have had this happen.

While you wait for more answers, I recommend you give your full recipe, including additives, liquid choice, fragrance, etc., as well as which methods you used.

 

[Lion Of Judah]

Welcome to the forum Firefly24
I agree with Artemis , without your recipe we would only scratch the surface of what the problem with fast trace may be, over stick blending and misbehaving fragrance oil & some essential oils tend to be top of the list of common problems. Other than that you have a lovely soap that I'm waiting for you to cut and post a pic of it .

 

[Firefly24]

My recipe was 5% almond sweet oil, 5% Castor Oil, 30% Coconut Oil, 40% Olive Oil, 20% Palm Oil. I used 54g's of Ylang Ylang FO (from Nurture's Garden.) 5% Superfat discount. Lye Concentration was 29% & water : lye ratio 2.4413:1 I will cut the soap today & post pictures again. I tried the hanger method. Hope it looks good. I think I may have over blended. I will see what you all think from this recipe. However, the notes about the FO said it behaved well in soap.

 

[AliOop]

Your loaf looks so pretty - can't wait to see the cut!

Hopefully you don't mind if I share a few thoughts about your recipe? It looks like a basic Trintiy of OIls recipe, with a little castor and sweet almond oils added. FYI, 30% CO is common for makers who are focused on low costs for selling soap. But that is a LOT of CO, which can be very drying to the skin when it becomes soap -the opposite of raw CO, right? You might consider lowering that to 20% and upping the PO a bit, or adding some shea or cocoa butter. Don't worry that the cleansing number will appear to be low - that's actually a good thing.

The other thing I'd adjust is your lye:water ratio. That's a whole lot of water for a CP recipe! So instead of using the calculator's default setting of 38% water as percent of oils, consider changing it to 33% lye concentration, aka 2:1 water:lye ratio. Using either of those last two will give you far more consistent results as you scale your recipes up or down.

Putting that all together, a revised recipe might look like this:

40% OO
25% PO
20% CO
10% shea or cocoa butter (or a mix)
5% castor oil

33% lye concentration (aka 2:1 water:lye ratio)
5% SF
Fragrance oil per IFRA

This won't be a super bubbly recipe, but you can improve that by using aloe vera juice instead of water, or by adding sugar at 2% of your total oil weight. The sugar gets dissolved in the water before adding the NaOH. Either way, the bubbly number will still appear low on the calculator (which doesn't account for or "see" additives) - but your soap will be bubbly.

Good luck - can't wait to see your cut pics!

 

[Firefly24]

Your loaf looks so pretty - can't wait to see the cut!

Hopefully you don't mind if I share a few thoughts about your recipe? It looks like a basic Trintiy of OIls recipe, with a little castor and sweet almond oils added. FYI, 30% CO is common for makers who are focused on low costs for selling soap. But that is a LOT of CO, which can be very drying to the skin when it becomes soap -the opposite of raw CO, right? You might consider lowering that to 20% and upping the PO a bit, or adding some shea or cocoa butter. Don't worry that the cleansing number will appear to be low - that's actually a good thing.

The other thing I'd adjust is your lye:water ratio. That's a whole lot of water for a CP recipe! So instead of using the calculator's default setting of 38% water as percent of oils, consider changing it to 33% lye concentration, aka 2:1 water:lye ratio. Using either of those last two will give you far more consistent results as you scale your recipes up or down.

Putting that all together, a revised recipe might look like this:

40% OO
25% PO
20% CO
10% shea or cocoa butter (or a mix)
5% castor oil

33% lye concentration (aka 2:1 water:lye ratio)
5% SF
Fragrance oil per IFRA

This won't be a super bubbly recipe, but you can improve that by using aloe vera juice instead of water, or by adding sugar at 2% of your total oil weight. The sugar gets dissolved in the water before adding the NaOH. Either way, the bubbly number will still appear low on the calculator (which doesn't account for or "see" additives) - but your soap will be bubbly.

Good luck - can't wait to see your cut pics!

Thank you so much. I am new and just got that recipe from a very talented girl on You Tube. I am going to take your advice and try that recipe with perhaps some aloe vera juice. I am clueless on when or how much sugar to add. Although that does sound like something I will definitely research and incorporate later also. I am not trying to make soap so much to sell, yet. I am in research phase and am in awe of this journey.

 

[AliOop]

I probably know which very talented girl to whom you are referring! She makes some amazing soaps as far as the appearance goes, but that recipe can be very hard on the skin due to the high CO.

Many of us came to soaping because of skin issues, so we tend to bang the "reduce-the-CO" drum to the point of annoying everyone else!

Sugar can be added at 1-2 Tbsp per pound of oils, but I like to measure it by weight. So I multiple the total oil weight by 2% and use that number. Or just use aloe vera juice instead of distilled water, and call it good.

 

[A-Polly]

Hi Firefly24 — your soap top looks so nice. Have you cut it yet? I think that's my favorite part of the process!

I recognize the Royalty Soaps standard recipe, have used it many times and can attest to it being a good one that works well to make a bar with nice lather and excellent skin feel — though not for everyone!. I am 71 and have no issues with that much coconut oil in a soap bar, but as @AliOop mentions, some need a different formula for their particular skin, such as less coconut oil, or no olive oil, and so on. Experimentation with different formulas will help you discover what you like, and what works best in your particular environment.

I wonder how quick your trace actually was. Katie's very large batches take a lot more blending, whereas your smaller amount of batter will trace in much less time. Again, no substitute for the experience of making your own and seeing how different formulas and ingredients behave! The fragrance and any other additives can make such a difference.

You've already gotten good suggestions on reducing the liquid amount; I think Katie's typical lye concentration is 38%, but I like the 33% suggested above (plus it is so easy to figure, since it's 2 times the amount of lye).

Another great source for beginner information and recipes is lovinsoap.com (Ben and Amanda Aaron). They provide some free beginner recipes (and much more!) here: Basic Beginner Recipes
I started out with some of Amanda's basics and can report that they work nicely, especially if you're interested in trying palm-free formulas (once again, not for those sensitive to coconut oil). Everyone's skin (and water, and weather!) is different, and it's fun to try and discover what makes you (and your skin) happy. For me, using handmade soap is just pure pleasure!

Good luck!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Taking into account all the recipe advice above^, I will also add that Ylang Ylang fragrance is notorious for accelerating. So that wouldn't have helped. Try a lavender batch - that always moved slow for me.

 

[Firefly24]

Once again, thank you all for the advice. I am going to try different recipes and didn't know that CO was so drying. I am also going to try sugar and I will try aloe vera juice as well. Yes, Katie is such a sweet doll and so generous to teach new people like me. I am going to make a pine tar soap and just experiment for a while. I cut the soap last night and it looks ok. I was hoping it would be more dramatic but not bad for a first time hangar method. I will also look at Amanada's recipes. I appreciate all of the help.

 

[A-Polly]

Congratulations! Your bars are much more than okay — they are beautiful!

 

[akseattle]

Once again, thank you all for the advice. I am going to try different recipes and didn't know that CO was so drying. I am also going to try sugar and I will try aloe vera juice as well. Yes, Katie is such a sweet doll and so generous to teach new people like me. I am going to make a pine tar soap and just experiment for a while. I cut the soap last night and it looks ok. I was hoping it would be more dramatic but not bad for a first time hangar method. I will also look at Amanada's recipes. I appreciate all of the help.

@Firefly24 I think your soaps look GREAT! It looks like you had alot of elements, 3 colors, fragrance, hanger technique, and rosettes! Especially for a second batch, I'd say you're doing really well. Are you a baker? Either you are super-fast at rosette making or your soap didn't trace that fast

 

[Firefly24]

@Firefly24 I think your soaps look GREAT! It looks like you had alot of elements, 3 colors, fragrance, hanger technique, and rosettes! Especially for a second batch, I'd say you're doing really well. Are you a baker? Either you are super-fast at rosette making or your soap didn't trace that fast

Thank you for the compliment. I used to teach cake decorating, cookie, candy, etc. I taught over 1000 students. I also taught private baking classes etc. The roses though were a MP with a mold. If I could ever get consistency with soap I want to try & decorate with it. I make candle cakes but since I started this soap journey, I think that soap allows for much more creativity. I am attaching a picture of one of my birthday cake candles I made.

 

[Zing]

Wow! That's only your second batch?! Great color combo and I like the subtle swirl.

Your cake skills will come in handy. I'm always yelling to Mrs. Zing to help me with the tops.

I have long used sugar that I dissolve in water before adding lye. Just a heads up that the lye solution will turn very pale yellow that has no effect on the final colors.

Also, I use my stick blender mostly as a stirring spoon with only a few 3-second bursts. When I was new, I just turned on the blender and left it on! It's hard to tell in videos because they always speed up that part.
Welcome!

 

[AliOop]

Fantastic first soap!! For some ideas about how to put your cake-decorating skills to use, check out Yellow Cottage Soapery on YT. She does a lot of piping!

 

[akseattle]

Thank you for the compliment. I used to teach cake decorating, cookie, candy, etc. I taught over 1000 students. I also taught private baking classes etc. The roses though were a MP with a mold. If I could ever get consistency with soap I want to try & decorate with it. I make candle cakes but since I started this soap journey, I think that soap allows for much more creativity. I am attaching a picture of one of my birthday cake candles I made.

nice cake!

 

[Firefly24]

Wow! That's only your second batch?! Great color combo and I like the subtle swirl.

Your cake skills will come in handy. I'm always yelling to Mrs. Zing to help me with the tops.

I have long used sugar that I dissolve in water before adding lye. Just a heads up that the lye solution will turn very pale yellow that has no effect on the final colors.

Also, I use my stick blender mostly as a stirring spoon with only a few 3-second bursts. When I was new, I just turned on the blender and left it on! It's hard to tell in videos because they always speed up that part.
Welcome!

Thank you. I tried the aloe vera juice yesterday in a batch and it was very yellow. I did not go crazy with the blender and it was extremely slow to trace. I will try sugar but I am so not good with math conversions anymore.

 

[Firefly24]

Your loaf looks so pretty - can't wait to see the cut!

Hopefully you don't mind if I share a few thoughts about your recipe? It looks like a basic Trintiy of OIls recipe, with a little castor and sweet almond oils added. FYI, 30% CO is common for makers who are focused on low costs for selling soap. But that is a LOT of CO, which can be very drying to the skin when it becomes soap -the opposite of raw CO, right? You might consider lowering that to 20% and upping the PO a bit, or adding some shea or cocoa butter. Don't worry that the cleansing number will appear to be low - that's actually a good thing.

The other thing I'd adjust is your lye:water ratio. That's a whole lot of water for a CP recipe! So instead of using the calculator's default setting of 38% water as percent of oils, consider changing it to 33% lye concentration, aka 2:1 water:lye ratio. Using either of those last two will give you far more consistent results as you scale your recipes up or down.

Putting that all together, a revised recipe might look like this:

40% OO
25% PO
20% CO
10% shea or cocoa butter (or a mix)
5% castor oil

33% lye concentration (aka 2:1 water:lye ratio)
5% SF
Fragrance oil per IFRA

This won't be a super bubbly recipe, but you can improve that by using aloe vera juice instead of water, or by adding sugar at 2% of your total oil weight. The sugar gets dissolved in the water before adding the NaOH. Either way, the bubbly number will still appear low on the calculator (which doesn't account for or "see" additives) - but your soap will be bubbly.

Good luck - can't wait to see your cut pics!

I tried this recipe yesterday. I used 5% shea butter & 5% cocoa butter. I used the aloe vera juice instead of water. I do freeze some of the juice so the lye doesn't get to hot. However, when I got to the Palm oil, I ran out at 227 grams. So, I added 35 grams of apricot kernel oil to get a total of 262g's. (Hoping this will work, I did not have time to figure out what else to do) It did trace nice and slow. I hope it works out. It is a soft batch and will surely take 3 days before unmolding. I used Temptation as the FO @ 65g's. Thank you for this recipe and the hints. I really appreciate this. Will post pictures in a few days. On to more batches this weekend.

 

[AliOop]

Thanks for the update! Sweet almond oil is very different than PO, and would definitely make it softer. PO is better replaced by shea butter or lard if you are looking for more of a 1:1 type of swap. I'm curious, did you adjust the lye setting 33% lye concentration? If you were using 38% water as percent of oils, that would probably result in a a lot of water, especially for a recipe this high in soft oils. That would also make it soft.

It's really just personal preference; the soap should be fine the way you made it. Now that it is in the mold, if you are impatient (and what soaper isn't??), you can speed up the saponification process by putting the soap on a heating pad for a few hours. That will help it firm up faster for unmolding.

 

[Firefly24]

Thanks for the update! Sweet almond oil is very different than PO, and would definitely make it softer. PO is better replaced by shea butter or lard if you are looking for more of a 1:1 type of swap. I'm curious, did you adjust the lye setting 33% lye concentration? If you were using 38% water as percent of oils, that would probably result in a a lot of water, especially for a recipe this high in soft oils. That would also make it soft.

It's really just personal preference; the soap should be fine the way you made it. Now that it is in the mold, if you are impatient (and what soaper isn't??), you can speed up the saponification process by putting the soap on a heating pad for a few hours. That will help it firm up faster for unmolding.

Yes I used the 33% water. I don't have a heating pad. How about in the oven?