Too many additives?
- Thread starter Ant
- Start date
Help Support Soapmaking Forum:
You can use both. I use sodium citrate and sodium lactate together.
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
If you have hard water issues you might consider buying RO or RO/DI water. If you don't want to buy it or don't have access to buy it, you can boil water to remove the hardness or purchase a RO water purifier. I have one and depending on the hardness of your water, they should last for at least 500 gallons. You can get a basic carbon RO with attachments for under $50. You can also just buy already filtered soft water.
The OP is talking about hard water when bathing, not for making the soap.
The only combination I have heard of that doesn't seem to work well in soap is citric acid (citrate) and vinegar. (Just reporting what others have shared -- I don't have personal experience.)
I think citric acid (citrate) and sodium lactate will be fine if used together. But it makes a lot of sense to try a test batch to see what you think of the results.
When I do test batches, I don't have a special mold; I just "wing it." I'll put a temporary partition into one of my larger molds to make a cavity that's small enough for a test batch ... or I'll use a small plastic food container (#2 or #5 recycle code).
I think citric acid (citrate) and sodium lactate will be fine if used together. But it makes a lot of sense to try a test batch to see what you think of the results.
When I do test batches, I don't have a special mold; I just "wing it." I'll put a temporary partition into one of my larger molds to make a cavity that's small enough for a test batch ... or I'll use a small plastic food container (#2 or #5 recycle code).
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
Vinegar and citric acid don't work together in soap. Together they make soap mushy, slimy and just weird. Separately the CA stops soap scum and vinegar makes the soap hard.
If you have suitable containers go for it. Alternatively you can buy a cavity mold like this one from aliexpress. They are pretty flimsy and bow a bit but they work pretty well and they are cheap.
https://tinyurl.com/yd224zqs
That's really interesting to know. I wonder if sodium lactate vs vinegar perform the same or if one is better. Does vinegar help with lather as well?
I'll probably reuse some containers for tests, multipurpose them.
I'll probably reuse some containers for tests, multipurpose them.
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
I make almost all my soaps with vinegar and do not get the plastic feel mentioned here. I do not use citric acid, but use EDTA and Sodium Gluconate as my Chelators. The vinegar allows me to un-mold my soap within hrs and I find lather improved. I have been using vinegar for approx 3 yrs now. When I changed to vinegar usage my customers also started commenting about how awesome my soap lathers among themselves.
Vinegar when reacted with NaOH, as long as extra lye is included forms Sodium Acetate which acts to harden the soap. Citric Acid, when reacted with NaOH, forms Sodium Citrate which acts as a chelator. If the necessary extra lye is not used both will just add to the superfat of the soap since it will use up some of your lye.
The chelator combo helped with soap scum considerably for my daughter, who has extremely hard well water. I actually started using the combination when I found many hair products sold in her area contain the combination. When I first started using a chelator I used citric acid but the amount it was taking to make a difference with soap scum was causing crystals to form on the outside of my soap which I did not like since I sell. At 2% usage, if I remember correctly, the crystals did not form but it really did not do a great job at deterring soap scum, any higher crystals formed.
Last edited:
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
Could you please tell me at what rates you use the vinegar and edta as I am running out of sodium Lactate and I have plenty of the other 2
atiz
Well-Known Member
Not cmzaha, but you can use vinegar as a water replacement up to 100% (and adjusting the NaOH amount).
I also use vinegar in most of the soaps nowadays, and like the hardness it gives. I don't have very precise tests on this but I do have the sense that it helps with the lather as well.
I usually use vinegar at 50% because I masterbatch my lye solution. If I am not using masterbatch I will use it at 100%. If you use Soapmakers Friend please watch the calculations for the liquid requirements. Even if you click the liquid discount on when adding in vinegar it. Since I know my recipe I know my liquid usage. The calculator will also up the liquid usage when you add in the vinegar because you are using more lye. I hope I did not make this confusing. I simply suggest not adding the vinegar to the calculator. Take the amount you want to use and multiply that amount by 0.0357 to get your extra lye necessary. This is for NaOH. You will have enough liquid to add in the extra lye with no problems dissolving it. If this is too confusing Todd pm me or pm your recipe and I will give you the calcs.
As for EDTA I use it at 0.5% but with the combo I use a total of 1% which works well for my daughter. So I would possibly up the EDTA to 1%, but have not tried it to see how it acts at 1% by itself.
As for EDTA I use it at 0.5% but with the combo I use a total of 1% which works well for my daughter. So I would possibly up the EDTA to 1%, but have not tried it to see how it acts at 1% by itself.
Noreen Moore
Well-Known Member
Real curious on the vinegar. I use aloe vera gel but would love to up the skill set. Are the vinegar soapers using plain white vinegar or cider? I saw some threads on apple cider vinegar. And are there differences or preferences? Odd question but anyone use balsamic? I know beer and wine are used so had to throw out the balsamic question! 
Todd Ziegler
Circle Z soaps
I was wondering the same thing. I think balsamic has sugar in it, so I would think it would be ok but it that is just a guess on my part.Real curious on the vinegar. I use aloe vera gel but would love to up the skill set. Are the vinegar soapers using plain white vinegar or cider? I saw some threads on apple cider vinegar. And are there differences or preferences? Odd question but anyone use balsamic? I know beer and wine are used so had to throw out the balsamic question!
There's no magic about apple cider vinegar. It will darken your soap a little bit. Use it or white as you prefer.
Balsamic will most likely darken soap even more than ACV. And you'd have to be aware of the sugar in balsamic -- might create problems for the way you soap or it might work fine.
Balsamic will most likely darken soap even more than ACV. And you'd have to be aware of the sugar in balsamic -- might create problems for the way you soap or it might work fine.
I use distilled vinegar because it is cheap and it is clear.
