The heat and hold method?

[Jubilee8269]

I know a lot of recipes for bath and body products tell you to heat the distilled water to a certain temperature and hold it there for twenty minutes. I'm not arguing to skip that step because it does make sense. I just have a question about pulling it off. I'm in a regular apartment right now. The thing is I'm possibly going to be moving into an assisted living one in a couple years, and I haven't practiced making any recipes at all yet. I'm still doing my research before I even start. Watching videos on how to make stuff. Looking for basic recipes to try. Sourcing places to buy from. Learning what the ingredients even are so I know how they work.

I won't have a stove when I move into that place. It comes with a microwave, and I can buy an electric kettle, and I believe use a crockpot. So would I be able to use any of those methods to heat and hold the water to the right temp for the twenty minutes? I know with microwaving you have to worry about super heating, and I only have a 6 quart crockpot right now, but I could get a smaller one for smaller batches of water to put in silicone containers to heat and hold. I can't hold glass ones. I have bad tremors and spasms in my arms, but I could possibly do metal ones, but those would get really hot. Or plastic if it can go to high heat.

 

[Skylantern]

I just bought an electric kettle for this exact reason. It has an auto shut-off after 45 mins where the temp will gradually go down so you have some wiggle room.

However, I also recently picked up a 2 person 1.5 qt crockpot at Walmart that is not only the cutest thing I've ever seen and referred to ask my "desk cauldron" but I use it for everything from melting down butters and waxes, to infusing oils, and you can also use it to heat and hold your water. It's not as convenient as pouring straight from a kettle but I love it and at $13 it has paid for itself again and again. Elite Gourmet MST-250XS 1.5-Qt. Mini Slow Cooker, Stainless Steel - Walmart.com. It's about the size of a cantaloupe melon.

 

[Jubilee8269]

Thank you so much! I've been looking for good priced things and where I can order them. I can't exactly go out shopping. My wheelchair hampers bringing things back on the ADA transport. But this link is a huge help! I might get that and an electric kettle. That way I would be able to do both things at once. Instead of having to use the microwave that apartment comes with. I don't think they would be happy about me doing bath and body products in their appliances.

 

[Skylantern]

Use disposable oven cooking bags for waxes and oils in the mini crockpot and clean up is a breeze. You might want to trim them down a bit to fit.

Here is the link for the electric kettle. I got the "cool touch" version but there are cheaper options. I'm just prone to burning myself. KRUPS Cool Touch Kettle With Heat Protection 1.5 L BW260850 - Walmart.com

These little guys really have helped the whole process. Hope they work out for you too!

 

[amd]

One thing to consider is good sanitation for your equipment. Can you sanitize what you're using properly? This is an important step when making lotions as it reduces the contaminants that may be introduced while making.

 

[Skylantern]

Amd makes a great point. I'm also in a tiny space and I use a dishpan to soak tools likes whisks, bowls, and spatulas in a diluted bleach bath and 70% rubbing alcohol to spray down surfaces and equipment that cannot be submerged. Disposable drop cloths for painting or plastic tablecloths make good covers for your work area. When cleaning very greasy things you can use a combination of a 1/2 cup of poly 20 with 1/2 cup of Food Grade D-Limonene and 2 - 3 cups dishwashing liquid to make a degreaser concentrate to mix with water to soak your tools in.

 

[Jubilee8269]

I have a big red tub that's sitting in my kitchen sink right now. I planned on buying another one once I start actually making the stuff from the dollar store or from walmart so that I have one dedicated to just soaking the stuff in so no food particles get in them. I already have a 2 pack of sponges that are a different color so I know not to mix and use them by accident. And I plan on getting a 12 pack of pastel microfiber cloths off of amazon so that they're not the same color as my regular cleaning rags and I don't get them confused either. It's going to be months before I actually start making the lotions as I finish getting everything. I have a pack of bottles coming from Nature's garden. But they're going to be sitting in my closet in their packaging while I get the tub and stuff to clean with. I was just getting two scents for another project from there and wanted to make my purchase worth the shipping cost.

Thanks for telling me those other three things to get. I'll add it to my long list. At least if I get the stuff in bulk I'll know what to stock up on when. I plan to get the Soapmaker app so that I know what I have and where I put it and what I'm using it for when and all that and I have a plastic tub I'm keeping my melt and pour soap molds in right now. I just need to get a bigger tub with a lid for storing my other stuff as well. Plus I have a rolling cart with some shelves for the basic stuff that I'm gonna be using for all my bath and body products as well as thae soaop that I'll be taking out constantly.

 

[Kcryss]

For heat and hold there are generally two phases that both need to be heated and held at the same time. A water phase (as you mentioned with distilled water) and the oil phase. For this to work you might need a bigger crockpot, one of the longer rectangular versions. Fill with water and insert your two phases using two diff containers. It would be like using a double boiler.

 

[Skylantern]

You're making great progress! Sounds like you'll be whipping up wonderful batches in no time! There is an absolute magic to seeing your lotion emulsify for the first time. It really never gets old.

 

[Jubilee8269]

I don't know how well the longer rectangular version will work. My counter space is going to be limited and they're L shaped. With a Microwave in the corner spot. If I had the rectangular crockpot taking up one of the counters I won't have much room to lay everything out to work with. But with the kettle I could heat it up on my dining table That'll be put behind the counters if I got the layout of the apartments right and there's a plug there, and I can carry it over to the counters to pour out. I'll really have to look and see. With my current counters there's no way it will fir I know that. I'll have to put the kettle on a set of rolling shelves I plan on getting for my kitchen and the tiny crockpot on a corner counter. Apartments just don't have enough room.

 

[Kcryss]

Here's a roaster that would work. It's out of stock right now, but I'm sure they'll be back before the next big holiday.

Oster 18 Quart Red Roaster with High Dome & Self-Basting Lid - Walmart.com - Walmart.com

 

[Skylantern]

I'd love to get some old timers to chime in on this because there is valid reasons why you'd want to heat and hold water to kill off any baddies so your preservative can do its job more efficiently. And there is logic to heating your oils to a similar temperature when you mix them together. But I'm not sure there is an reason why they need to be held together.

Can someone elaborate on this?

 

[Jubilee8269]

Here's a roaster that would work. It's out of stock right now, but I'm sure they'll be back before the next big holiday.

Oster 18 Quart Red Roaster with High Dome & Self-Basting Lid - Walmart.com - Walmart.com

Ohhhh that looks nice. Even more reason to get those rolling shelves I wanted now. That just might fit on the top one perfectly. I was going to use them to let my soaps harden on as well. So they'd be doing a lot of double duty.

 

[Kcryss]

I'd love to get some old timers to chime in on this because there is valid reasons why you'd want to heat and hold water to kill off any baddies so your preservative can do its job more efficiently. And there is logic to heating your oils to a similar temperature when you mix them together. But I'm not sure there is an reason why they need to be held together.

Can someone elaborate on this?

I'm not an Old Timer, but I've been making lotions etc. for a long time. Soap is only a little over a year for me.

Water and oil needs to be heated and held to kill "current" bacteria, not bacteria yet to come. Although it helps with that too. The more sterile your mixture is before packaging, the less chance you will have "bugs" growing in your formulas. Since we are working out of our homes, it is not a sterile environment.

Most broad spectrum preservatives prevent additional bacteria from growing, but do not kill what is already present.

 

[Skylantern]

@Kcryss we're in agreement on creating as close to a sterile starting environment as possible.

What I was interested in though was the idea of holding them together as opposed to heating them up separately and combining them.

Found some interesting links, seems it's a popular topic in the community:

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/is-heat-hold-necessary-for-lotion.69768/https://formulabotanica.com/6-reasons-why-the-heat-and-hold-method-is-a-myth/

 

[Kcryss]

What I was interested in though was the idea of holding them together as opposed to heating them up separately and combining them.

Ohh ... gotcha. So you mean heating in separate devices? I guess I wasn't looking at it that way. It would work both ways, as long as they are both help to temp and combined while still at that temp.

I've seen the debate on heat and hold and in a more sterile environment, I might agree that it isn't necessary. However, in my house I have 2 dogs, a cat and DH. I prefer to continue heat and hold just to be on the safe side.

 

[Skylantern]

@Kcryss we're on the same page I was just trying to help Jubilee save some money and some space by using two smaller and less heavy items.

 

[Jubilee8269]

I'm grateful to see the discussion. Being new to all of this I'm not sure what steps to take. Since I have a cat, and an autoimmune disorder heating and holding is def a step I want to take. Soon as I deposit some money tomorrow I'm buying a temp gun. So I'll know what temp they're at and will be mixing them at the right one.

 

[Skylantern]

@Jubilee8269 we're here for you <3

 

[amd]

I'd love to get some old timers to chime in on this because there is valid reasons why you'd want to heat and hold water to kill off any baddies so your preservative can do its job more efficiently. And there is logic to heating your oils to a similar temperature when you mix them together. But I'm not sure there is an reason why they need to be held together.

Water and oil needs to be heated and held to kill "current" bacteria, not bacteria yet to come. Although it helps with that too. The more sterile your mixture is before packaging, the less chance you will have "bugs" growing in your formulas. Since we are working out of our homes, it is not a sterile environment.

While killing "bugs" is part of the myth, the better part of heat and hold after combining both phases is to allow the emulsifiers and oils to become stable. [sorry this is a very general statement, I'm a bit short on time, so keeping it simple] This allows for a more stable emulsion. I spent a year researching lotion making, and my first forays into making used the heat and hold. Another member on this forum suggested a purchased lotion recipe that uses a "concentrate" of sorts to create lotions that does not require to heat and hold. I have the advantage of knowing a cosmetic chemist, so I ran a few things past him, including this purchased recipe. He says as long as you follow the ingredient list very specifically, their recipe is sound and works well to create a stable lotion without using heat and hold. He was very specific to never change the amount or type of x, y, z ingredients.