Sub for Sodium Lactate

[Candybee]

I need to make some soap today and am running out of SL. I was hoping I could sub some salt instead. I do have beeswax and stearic but would rather not use those.

I am using my PVC molds and just want to make sure the soap slides out of the mold. I've been using SL in my batter to help with that.

Anyone else use PVC pipe for molds? I just need to make sure they will come out in about 12-18 hours as I need to reuse them tomorrow.

 

[dixiedragon]

I've never done this myself, but some people use a dairy product - such as milk or yogurt - which produces sodium lactate naturally when added. Are you using HP or CP?

I've always struggled with PCV molds. The best way I've found is to line them with a piece of quilter's mylar. Available at Joann's, Michael's, etc. Otherwise, grease REALLY WELL with mineral oil.

 

[Lin19687]

I do, I rub Mineral Oil inside and I also use one of those baking silicone mats rolled up inside it. Slides out Ok and then I just unroll the mat.
I just started with the Mineral Oil and they say that it takes a few batches to keep that coating on. I use the mats in the mean time because I got them uber cheap.
I have not tried to soap with the rounds with Mineral Oil and Without the mat.
I also use Yogurt in all my soaps.

 

[jcandleattic]

When I run out of SL I use a 60% salt solution.

I use PVC molds quite often, and don't ever prep them with anything. I just make sure they are clean and dry. With my recipe, once saponification is complete, and the soap is cool, I pop it in the freezer for about 20 minutes to an hour, then I take out of the freezer, let rest for about 5 minutes, give it a good bang, and easy peasy slides right out, then I wait about another 2o minutes to an hour for it to come back to room temp before trying to cut.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Google search this site for threads about using vinegar. The sodium acetate is said to have similar effect as lactate.

You can also go to a local home brewing store. A decent one will have 88% lactic acid. From that you can make your own sodium lactate (with lye). I think there are threads about that, too.

Replacing all the water in a recipe with the acidic whey from yogurt would be better than nothing, but not as much lactate as would normally be added.

 

[Candybee]

Unfortunately I can't change the recipe-- these are beer soaps and are for a wholesale account.

I have been using the PVC molds for a while so hopefully they are well seasoned.

I've used liners before but it always makes a line or indentation on the soap rounds so I won't be using any liners either.

I don't have any mineral oils so I think I am going to go ahead with adding the salt as I've read that it helps temporarily harden the soap. That's fine as the soap will naturally harden during cure. I just need to make sure it comes out of the mold.

Will let you know how it works when I try to unmold tomorrow. If I have problems I can also freeze them too before I unmold.

I answered while a couple other posts went up. I have never tried making my own SL. Something to look into but right now I don't have time.

I am going with the salt added to my lye solution and freeze the molds just prior to unmolding.

I think I am panicking more than I probably need to. I'm sure everything will turn out fine.

Don't you hate it when you run out of something you forgot to reorder and have to do without?!! Argh!!

 

[soapmaker]

I don't have trouble using pvc molds at all now that I have reduced the water content of my soaps but you all already know about water discounts. I don't prep my molds with anything. After sitting for about 12 hrs. I put in the freezer for an hour, get it out, let sit for a short time and push it right out with a pusher my husband made for me. Yes you can sub salt for SL if you do not use an accelerating FO. There are threads about using salt.

 

[jcandleattic]

Unfortunately I can't change the recipe-- these are beer soaps and are for a wholesale account.

I have been using the PVC molds for a while so hopefully they are well seasoned.

I've used liners before but it always makes a line or indentation on the soap rounds so I won't be using any liners either.

I don't have any mineral oils so I think I am going to go ahead with adding the salt as I've read that it helps temporarily harden the soap. That's fine as the soap will naturally harden during cure. I just need to make sure it comes out of the mold.

Will let you know how it works when I try to unmold tomorrow. If I have problems I can also freeze them too before I unmold.

Hi Candybee, I didn't realize this was you when I read the post.
Make a 60% saltwater solution. I do it all the time, and it acts exactly like my SL. (it's basically the same thing) and I can't tell a difference in my soaps from the saltwater solution to the SL when I have to adhoc it.

 

[soapmaker]

I also was writing when others added their 2 cents.

 

[Candybee]

Hi Candybee, I didn't realize this was you when I read the post.
Make a 60% saltwater solution. I do it all the time, and it acts exactly like my SL. (it's basically the same thing) and I can't tell a difference in my soaps from the saltwater solution to the SL when I have to adhoc it.

Yeah-- It's me!

What exactly do you mean by 60% water solution? I am planning to put the salt in my lye solution. Is that what you mean?

If I use 10oz of lye solution, do I use 6oz of salt? That seems excessive..

 

[jcandleattic]

Yeah-- It's me!

What exactly do you mean by 60% water solution? I am planning to put the salt in my lye solution. Is that what you mean?

If I use 10oz of lye solution, do I use 6oz of salt? That seems excessive..

No make your solution first then use your typical % from that solution.
For example, let's say you are making a 10oz solution - use 6oz salt to 10oz water. Now, from THAT solution, use it exactly the same way you would your SL. If you typically use 3% SL in your total batch size, then you use that percentage of your made up saltwater solution. I never add just salt directly to the lye, I use my homemade solution the exact way I use my supplier bought SL -
I use anywhere from 1-3% of SL based on the recipe I use. My main recipe I use is 2% SL, so when I make my 60% saltwater solution, I use 2% by weight in my batch.

I hope that makes sense...

 

[Candybee]

Thanks JC! Got it!

 

[Lin19687]

FYI, Mineral Oil is at the Pharmacy (CVS, Walgreens, Riteaid)
Just in case you want to try it at some point

Let us know how it comes out !

 

[Candybee]

FYI, Mineral Oil is at the Pharmacy (CVS, Walgreens, Riteaid)
Just in case you want to try it at some point

Let us know how it comes out !

I really should get some more mineral oil and keep it around the house. I use it for all kinds of things. I used to have a can that lasted me for a long time and just keep forgetting to replace it!

 

[Lin19687]

It is a lot more $$ then I remember years ago. I too used to keep it around.
It is $5 for 32 oz here in MA which I thought was a bit high

 

[madison]

Replacing all the water in a recipe with the acidic whey from yogurt would be better than nothing, but not as much lactate as would normally be added

BG, did you try that yourself?

I don't have trouble using pvc molds at all now that I have reduced the water content of my soaps but you all already know about water discounts. I don't prep my molds with anything. After sitting for about 12 hrs. I put in the freezer for an hour, get it out, let sit for a short time and push it right out with a pusher my husband made for me. Yes you can sub salt for SL if you do not use an accelerating FO. There are threads about using salt.

My pusher is a can of food.

I also use Yogurt in all my soaps.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, I hope it's ok to ask you about your method of using yoghurt as I read many threads about it.

 

[Candybee]

My pusher is a can of food.

Since I make only beer soap in the PVC molds my pusher is the beer can!

Update: Got the first set of soaps made today. Have the rest of the soap order to finish up tomorrow. I ended up adding a little salt to the lye solution and stirred til it disolved. Will see if that helps out tomorrow morning when I go to unmold. If not, will put it in the freezer for a bit and see if that helps.

 

[Lin19687]

A Madison I add Greek yogurt. Started with HP at end of cook to help with Fluid, now I just add some yogurt as part of my water.

Nice that the beer can fits I tried every can in my Pantry and finally found one that fit. Decided it was not worth it so I went with the mats/mineral oil.
BTW, my freezer is a side by side so I have no room to put the PVC mold in there

 

[BrewerGeorge]

BG, did you try that yourself?

No, I did the calculations a couple years ago but I never tried it. Once I started using pre-batch lye I forgot about it.

I also found out about the butyric acid smell from milk fat being a potential problem, which was further discouragement.

But if you want to experiment, the acidic whey drained off yogurt allowed to fully ferment (at least a day) should be approximately 7% lactic acid. Replacing ALL the water in a batch at 25% lyc concentration should give you roughly the same amount of sodium lactate that people normally use, while dropping superfat about 3%. Those are rough approximations, so do the math if you want to try it, obviously.

 

[madison]

No, I did the calculations a couple years ago but I never tried it. Once I started using pre-batch lye I forgot about it.

I also found out about the butyric acid smell from milk fat being a potential problem, which was further discouragement.

But if you want to experiment, the acidic whey drained off yogurt allowed to fully ferment (at least a day) should be approximately 7% lactic acid. Replacing ALL the water in a batch at 25% lyc concentration should give you roughly the same amount of sodium lactate that people normally use, while dropping superfat about 3%. Those are rough approximations, so do the math if you want to try it, obviously.

I know that butyric acid smell applies to using butter or ghee, didn't think about yogurt. I do ferment my yogurt 24 hours then I get plenty of whey when I dry it out for further use which means extra fermentation up to 72 hours. I am not sure if I am getting it right, does the long fermentation help with the butyric acid smell?