'Squeaky' Clean Syndet Shampoo Bars

[KiwiMoose]

My new shampoo bars have a small dense foamy type lather rather than lots of big bubbles, and my hair is very squeaky when I rinse. I'm thinking both these things aren't good? I would like more bubbles, but I am concerned if I put any more cleaning agents in there that my hair will get even more squeaky!

Recipe:
SCI 41%
SLSA 12%
Decyl Glucoside 12%
Varisoft 15%
Shea Butter 5%
Cetyl Alcohol 7%
Provitamin B5 1%
Lactic Acid <1%
Silk Protein <1%
Euxyl <1%
Fragrance 1%

I will not use cocamidapapropyl betaine in my recipe for a number of reasons - so if we can work around that, I would be most appreciative

 

[jcandleattic]

I don't have a response for you on the actual recipe, but no "squeaky" clean is not good.
It's stripping your hair and that's why you get the squeak.
I'm sure someone will come and help you tweak the recipe

 

[amd]

@KiwiMoose have you checked out the syndet group on FaceBook? They have quite a few good formulators in the group who may be able to help you. (On the other side of that there are a few to watch out for as well - there's an Aries chick on there who criticizes pretty much everything I share.) I'm not up to formulating yet, but I'm learning quite a bit from the group and taking notes. The group is called Syndet Shampoo Bars Making and Info Sharing. I'd link it but I'm at work

 

[KiwiMoose]

@KiwiMoose have you checked out the syndet group on FaceBook? They have quite a few good formulators in the group who may be able to help you. (On the other side of that there are a few to watch out for as well - there's an Aries chick on there who criticizes pretty much everything I share.) I'm not up to formulating yet, but I'm learning quite a bit from the group and taking notes. The group is called Syndet Shampoo Bars Making and Info Sharing. I'd link it but I'm at work

Thanks AMD - will look it up. And whoops! I'm an Aries chick - but I'm a nice one

 

[DeeAnna]

My notes say SCI has a mild creamy foam and SLSA has bigger bubbles. I use roughly equal parts of both in my 'poo bar. Maybe more SLSA in proportion to the SCI would give you the results you want?

The squeaky clean problem might come from using too much product. I have to consciously remind myself to briefly and lightly rub the bar on my hair. Shampoo bars have around 70% active ingredients, and liquid shampoos are probably closer to 15-20% AI. It's easy to over use.

 

[Obsidian]

I'm always surprised to hear people don't like the squeaky clean. I wash 2 or 3 times with my syndet bars to get that clean.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I like squeaky, but was worried it might be too cleansing @Obsidian

 

[KiwiMoose]

My notes say SCI has a mild creamy foam and SLSA has bigger bubbles. I use roughly equal parts of both in my 'poo bar. Maybe more SLSA in proportion to the SCI would give you the results you want?

The squeaky clean problem might come from using too much product. I have to consciously remind myself to briefly and lightly rub the bar on my hair. Shampoo bars have around 70% active ingredients, and liquid shampoos are probably closer to 15-20% AI. It's easy to over use.

Thank you Deeanna - how will I counter the extra alkalinity of SLSA - add more lactic acid?

 

[Dahila]

it is going to be very high Ph
Decyl Glucoside 12%
Varisoft 15%
extremely high , with this amount of varisoft and decyl you are ending with at least 10 ph, Of course you will be able to lowered but it is a meticulous process . To cover the sensor in your PH meter you need at least 50 g of solution (5 g shampoo 45 Distilled water) I use small beaker for it. The most varisoft is for me like 4 % still ph was high and I had to ajust it

 

[KiwiMoose]

it is going to be very high Ph
Decyl Glucoside 12%
Varisoft 15%
extremely high , with this amount of varisoft and decyl you are ending with at least 10 ph, Of course you will be able to lowered but it is a meticulous process . To cover the sensor in your PH meter you need at least 50 g of solution (5 g shampoo 45 Distilled water) I use small beaker for it. The most varisoft is for me like 4 % still ph was high and I had to ajust it

Eek! I’d be better off using my soap in that case! Might have to ditch the adventure - far too complicated and I don’t want to be forking out for a pH meter.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...how will I counter the extra alkalinity of SLSA..."

I'm not entirely sure you'd need to adjust the pH if using SLSa.

Sodium lauryl sulfoacetate, SLSa, has a pH in the 5 to 7.5 range in a 5% solution, according to a quick Google search. That fits with my recollection that it doesn't have an overly alkaline pH. Maybe a bit higher than is strictly ideal, but not like SLS or SLes (see below) or other surfactants that Dahlia mentioned. To give points of comparison --

Sodium cocoyl isethionate, SCI, pH 4.5 to 6.5 in a 10% solution
Sodium lauryl sulfoacetate, SLSa, pH 5 to 7.5 in a 5% solution

Sodium lauryl sulfate, SLS, pH 7.5 to 8.5 in a 10% solution
Sodium laureth sulfate, SLeS, pH 7.5 to 8.5 in a 10% solution

Decyl Glucoside, pH 11.5-12.5 in a 10% solution

I'm seeing Varisoft EQ 65 as having a pH of 3 to 6 in a 5% solution, so I'm not quite sure about that one. Maybe @Dahila can explain her comments about that one having a high pH.​

If you want to accurately adjust the pH to your preferred range, Dahila is correct -- you would really need to use a pH meter.

 

[Dahila]

First of all from Susan bl0g, then few others places . Varisoft is around 6 but tend to drift somehow ph. All formulation with it needs adjustement. https://glenncorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DS_VARISOFT_300_e.pdf
"Varisoft EQ 65 can hydrolyze (break up) at pH levels of higher than 5, therefore the pH of the product should be adjusted to pH 4 to 4.5 with a 50% citric acid solution at the end of processing.combing and dry feel of hair" this is why , even if it is 6 it is still to high for hair or for the lotion, I keep it at 4.8 usually for skin and for hair
I make syndets for many years already, Each of them needs the adjustment, Adding botanicals can drift the ph ie polyquaternium 7 or 10

 

[DeeAnna]

Thanks for clarifying, Dahila. I appreciate learning more about this.

 

[Dahila]

Thanx DeeAnna; the lower ph is in my shampoo bars the shine is incredible, even without adding any fancy ingredients. That's my granchild hair after washing it with my syndet and using my conditioner too

 

[KiwiMoose]

Oooh - this is anionic - should I include this?
Disodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate

 

[Dahila]

I use it at 20% SCI at 24 and few others

 

[Dahila]

Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate this is slsa I do add DLS when I target oily hair