Soy Wax Users

[penelopejane]

Less batter than normal.



It was just a two bar batch in cavities. One bar was bout 1/4 inch low.

To me it sounds like a mismeausre somewhere.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Kiwi: If you don't mind, please repeat what calculator you use for the soy wax you use. (IIRC, you use 415 soy wax?)

I went back to see if you do use 20 percent soy wax in your recipes as I remembered it to make sure.

Do you use the Soapbee calculator and the "fully hydrogenated soybean oil" category when calculating the recipe?

Thanks for repeating this for me.

Hi RDak - there are two Kiwis now, so you need to be specific
I used Soap Calc up until recently and I have switched to the SMF's own calculator. I use the 'fully hydrogenated' option. Yes, I usually use 20% of soy wax 415.

 

[Dean]

there are two Kiwis now

Moose got herself cloned so she can soap twice as much.

 

[kelly2019]

how would you add soy wax in on the soap recipe calculator? would the beeswax option work for soy wax? I don't want to use 20%...but thought it might be nice to try since I have some on hand...I try to make a more moist bar for my daughter (eczema)

Hi RDak - there are two Kiwis now, so you need to be specific
I used Soap Calc up until recently and I have switched to the SMF's own calculator. I use the 'fully hydrogenated' option. Yes, I usually use 20% of soy wax 415.

I just saw this after my question! oops. Going to search for that calculator now!

 

[KiwiSoap]

Hi RDak - there are two Kiwis now, so you need to be specific

Yeah, sorry about that, poor planning on my part Everyone knows you're the better one!

Kiwi: If you don't mind, please repeat what calculator you use for the soy wax you use. (IIRC, you use 415 soy wax?)

I went back to see if you do use 20 percent soy wax in your recipes as I remembered it to make sure.

Do you use the Soapbee calculator and the "fully hydrogenated soybean oil" category when calculating the recipe?

I'm using Soapee (and double check with SoapCalc.net to be sure no typos). In my experience so far, they all come up with the same result so use whichever you prefer.
I think you'll find that both Soy wax, fully hydrogenated or Soybean, 27.5% hydrogenated have very similar SAP values so will give about the same NaOH weight, it is the recipe properties that differ.

I've just made soap with a different recipe, this time using 10% soy wax 415, will keep you all posted!

 

[Andrew]

Yeah, sorry about that, poor planning on my part Everyone knows you're the better one!



I'm using Soapee (and double check with SoapCalc.net to be sure no typos). In my experience so far, they all come up with the same result so use whichever you prefer.
I think you'll find that both Soy wax, fully hydrogenated or Soybean, 27.5% hydrogenated have very similar SAP values so will give about the same NaOH weight, it is the recipe properties that differ.

I've just made soap with a different recipe, this time using 10% soy wax 415, will keep you all posted!

they all have the same sap value (193) as the hydrogenation process does not affect the saponification value. the different options change the fatty acid profile.

 

[RDak]

Thank you BOTH Kiwi's!!!

 

[Dean]

50% SW batter in da mold! I christian thee, Super Soy Wax Soap. Go hard or go home!

 

[KiwiMoose]

 

[pmartin]

I use quite a bit of soy wax for my business and have fatty acid break downs of most of the soy waxes commonly used for soap making. Here is the main issue with using candle wax in soap: you do not know the exact fatty acid make up and have to approximate it in a calculator. Whatever you use in the calculator, the saponification value is approximately 192.

Going off of my phone calls with Golden Brands reps, I can definitely can say that 415 is very close to the fatty acid make up of 27% hydrogenated oil with a slightly higher hydrogenation % to about 30 (previously stated above). Is it exact? no. Is it the closest option in a lye calculator? yes. The only important factor is that the two have a similar fatty acid make up so your calculator will be as accurate as possible for the different fatty acid percentages. The intended use is irrelevant. In fact, soy wax is manufactured for candles, food, and industry (mainly lubricants) so you will of course have food shortening in the calculator.

In addition, many candle waxes have been interesterified so the melting point and how hard the material is does NOT reflect the fatty acids. So you can buy multiple waxes with different melting points that make different candles, that make the chemically same soap.

Thank you very much Andrew for your contributions to this thread! I found your posts very informative. I’ve used GW 415 a couple of times thinking it was fully hydrogenated and was curious why the results were unexpected.

 

[KiwiSoap]

I'll echo the thanks to Andrew as well, you've helped shed light on this product we're continuing to learn about! And thanks to all contributing to the discussion, this sharing of knowledge helps us all.

 

[Steve85569]

Yes, please.. It would give me a starting point. I'm glad to know it, at the very least, works

I'm slow but I do get back on ( squirrel!) topic.
Both 415 and 444 soaps lather and clean the same as far as I can tell. I did use different scents so the one with lemongrass EO may be just a little softer.

Recipe is
30% lard
20% soy wax
15% olive oil
15% shea butter
15% coconut oil 5% castor oil
lye discount was 5% for these (SF)
I use a whopping 2% sodium citrate for my hard water as well (no play on words intended).
You are welcome to use or modify that recipe as you wish. It's just what I did for the experiment.

I am a little tempted to make a batch that's 100% soy and put wicks in it...

 

[Dean]

I'm slow but I do get back on ( squirrel!) topic.
Both 415 and 444 soaps lather and clean the same as far as I can tell. I did use different scents so the one with lemongrass EO may be just a little softer.

Recipe is
30% lard
20% soy wax
15% olive oil
15% shea butter
15% coconut oil 5% castor oil
lye discount was 5% for these (SF)
I use a whopping 2% sodium citrate for my hard water as well (no play on words intended).
You are welcome to use or modify that recipe as you wish. It's just what I did for the experiment.

I am a little tempted to make a batch that's 100% soy and put wicks in it...

Ur recipie has the same hardness as my 50% SW bar!

 

[lenarenee]

Has anyone found any organic non GMO soy wax yet?

 

[Andrew]

Has anyone found any organic non GMO soy wax yet?

as far as i know that is not in production. It is also somewhat unnecessary as soy wax is washed and tested free of all DNA and other chemicals. Glyophosphate also breaks down in water.

 

[Dawni]

I'm slow but I do get back on ( squirrel!) topic.
Both 415 and 444 soaps lather and clean the same as far as I can tell. I did use different scents so the one with lemongrass EO may be just a little softer.

Recipe is
30% lard
20% soy wax
15% olive oil
15% shea butter
15% coconut oil 5% castor oil
lye discount was 5% for these (SF)
I use a whopping 2% sodium citrate for my hard water as well (no play on words intended).
You are welcome to use or modify that recipe as you wish. It's just what I did for the experiment.

I am a little tempted to make a batch that's 100% soy and put wicks in it...

Lol

Thank you for the recipe! I will try it first as a lard replacement as I promised someone a comparison.

My soy wax 444 was delivered today!

 

[earlene]

I found this...

https://www.thesage.com/catalog/products/Soybean-Oil-(hydrogenated).html

I've requested details.

Has MMS got back to you yet, Dean?

I don't like the MMS calculator because it doesn't give me any information about the soap properties and when I was new, those ranges for water and SL were just too confusing. Plus it doesn't allow for as many different oils as are available on some other lye calculators. But that is beside the point.

I also don't purchase from them because they don't provide a link to any data sheets for many of their products. I think that's a poor way to run a supplier business. But if they have good customer service and provide requested information, I may re-think that.

 

[Andrew]

Has MMS got back to you yet, Dean?

I don't like the MMS calculator because it doesn't give me any information about the soap properties and when I was new, those ranges for water and SL were just too confusing. Plus it doesn't allow for as many different oils as are available on some other lye calculators. But that is beside the point.

I also don't purchase from them because they don't provide a link to any data sheets for many of their products. I think that's a poor way to run a supplier business. But if they have good customer service and provide requested information, I may re-think that.

that is partially hydrogenated oil. They had fully hydrogenated soy, but discontinued it last year because the manufacturer stopped making it and they could not source it. I actually bought their last box and had a very nice conversation with a manager from their warehouse.

 

[earlene]

Did they provide you with an SDS sheet on that product, Andrew?

 

[Andrew]

COA and SDS. COA basically had melting temp calculator and SDS is a normal SDS. With the modifications to candle wax, I am unsure of exactly what their product is and I have not used it.

The trick with soy wax is to find out what the IV and temp values are and whether or not it was interesterified. Then you can look up the % hydrogenation and from that the fatty acid make up. It is a bit of work