Soy Wax Users

[earlene]

KiwiMoose, I am sorry we got off track.

So where do you purchase your soy wax? What brand is it? Part of what we were discussing was it being so hard to find here in the US. The 100% hydrogenated soy wax. I really am interested in doing some comparison tests on it to what I currently use, which is Golden Wax 415, which is all that has ever been recommended to me since I started soapmaking. And using the fully hydrogenated setting in my lye calculator (Soapee, usually) is what was recommended as well. And it has been working very well for me, too.

I suppose sourcing our soy wax is one of the issues around soy wax, but it shouldn't be a huge debate, rather information sharing, right?

 

[Dean]

Back to our regular programming...

I mentioned I made my mom some unscented soap. It came out low in the mold. I wasn’t sure if it was cuz of the lack of EO or mismeasurement. Anyway I showered with it while there. It had a diff feel than normal...not sure how to describe it...like it had a drag. Is this what is called waxy? It didnt have more SW than normal. U think it was mismeasurement...her water...a combo...something else?

 

[Dawni]

There are currently 3 blends curing one even used 444 ( which by the way uses the same MSDS as 415).

Seems to me to be much ado about very little if not nothing.

My soy wax is taking time to arrive so I'm patiently waiting for it, or your soap to cure lol whichever comes first.

Incidentally, for Dawni: I read that AAK (and also Cargill) are expanding manufacturing to the Phillipines, so maybe you might be able to find a souce for GW 415 sooner rather than later.

Ah coolness. And, more businesses, double cool

Back to our regular programming...

I mentioned I made my mom some unscented soap. It came out low in the mold. I wasn’t sure if it was cuz of the lack of EO or mismeasurement. Anyway I showered with it while there. It had a diff feel than normal...not sure how to describe it...like it had a drag. Is this what is called waxy? It didnt have more SW than normal. U think it was mismeasurement...her water...a combo...something else?

What do you mean by "it came out low in the mold?"

Also, the drag could be coz of the water. I'm not sure about soy, but my one beeswax soap that my sister loves feels different here compared to her place according to her. Neither of us has hard water but I'm betting one place has it softer than the other.

Could also be a combo with something else that I can't figure right now lol I'm still trying to digest the last few pages here lol

 

[Steve85569]

Dawni,
I tried an end cut of the 444 tonight. Lots of suds!!
I'll need to look at the recipe in the morning. If you would like it I'll post it.
I made the same recipe with 415 and I''l test an end cut on it tomorrow too.

 

[Dawni]

Dawni,
I tried an end cut of the 444 tonight. Lots of suds!!
I'll need to look at the recipe in the morning. If you would like it I'll post it.
I made the same recipe with 415 and I''l test an end cut on it tomorrow too.

Yes, please.. It would give me a starting point. I'm glad to know it, at the very least, works

 

[Steve85569]

I did notice today that Soapcalc now lists soy wax 27.5 as well as soy wax. I did however forget to look at the SAP value.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Back to our regular programming...

I mentioned I made my mom some unscented soap. It came out low in the mold. I wasn’t sure if it was cuz of the lack of EO or mismeasurement. Anyway I showered with it while there. It had a diff feel than normal...not sure how to describe it...like it had a drag. Is this what is called waxy? It didnt have more SW than normal. U think it was mismeasurement...her water...a combo...something else?

@KiwiSoap has mentioned this to me too. I wonder if it's to do with the water? We don't have hard water here ( in Hamilton)

 

[KiwiSoap]

Yes, I've made two batches of @KiwiMoose's Soy Wax soap and I've started using a mini-bar of one which is two weeks old now, just for hand washing. It makes a really nice lather, lots of small bubbles, and feels nice but after rinsing it off I thought there was some residue or something that made it feel grippy, or as Dean says, draggy. I've only tested faux seawater Castille otherwise which is young as well and did not leave that feeling.

I made the SW soap with 4% superfat, I thought I'd read a suggestion that a lower SF was better. I think the water here is soft, though it is currently chlorinated. Will see how the soap develops

 

[penelopejane]

Back to our regular programming...

I mentioned I made my mom some unscented soap. It came out low in the mold. I wasn’t sure if it was cuz of the lack of EO or mismeasurement. Anyway I showered with it while there. It had a diff feel than normal...not sure how to describe it...like it had a drag. Is this what is called waxy? It didnt have more SW than normal. U think it was mismeasurement...her water...a combo...something else?

How much lower in the mold? 100 ml of EO isn’t going to make a big difference in the height of the soap.

 

[earlene]

Back to our regular programming...

I mentioned I made my mom some unscented soap. It came out low in the mold. I wasn’t sure if it was cuz of the lack of EO or mismeasurement. Anyway I showered with it while there. It had a diff feel than normal...not sure how to describe it...like it had a drag. Is this what is called waxy? It didnt have more SW than normal. U think it was mismeasurement...her water...a combo...something else?

If the recipe is the same that you use for your own SW soap, then wouldn't the only difference be the water with which you showered? Or, as you said possibly a measurement error when you made the soap.

I know what a drag feels like to me. Too much lanolin in soap gives a drag as well, so I am guessing that you were feeling the same thing. I haven't noticed it with my SW soap though, so I guess I've been okay on the percentage I am using, which is 30%. I will try a higher percentage at one point, but haven't yet.

Do you know if the water in your mom's house is softer or harder than the water at your house? Do either of you use a water softener? Our water changes if our water softener runs out of salt. We notice a real change in how soap rinses off if that happens.

 

[Lin19687]

Dean with out listing the recipe and how old the soap is, again we can't tell you exactly what went wrong. And water can play a big roll so we would need to know that too.
@amd don't you have hard water? how much does that play a roll ?

 

[Andrew]

I did notice today that Soapcalc now lists soy wax 27.5 as well as soy wax. I did however forget to look at the SAP value.

SAP value does not change with hydrogenation so it should stay around 192 no matter which blend you are using.

I believe it's (as of 2017) illegal to product hydrogenated soy (fats) for human consumption in the US. It's why the candle industry had such a problem recently with very inconsistent wax batches, entire lines of wax disappearing and being replaced by strange new versions. Last time I heard, at least one manufacturer was producing hydrogenated non-food grade soy.

some food producers are now not allowed to use trans fats. Fully hydrogenated soy has no trans fats in it. Alot of the industry is for industrial uses as well so there is still a solid market for the products.

 

[Dean]

What do you mean by "it came out low in the mold?"

Less batter than normal.

How much lower in the mold? 100 ml of EO isn’t going to make a big difference in the height of the soap.

It was just a two bar batch in cavities. One bar was bout 1/4 inch low.

If the recipe is the same that you use for your own SW soap, then wouldn't the only difference be the water with which you showered?

The recipie was the same cept no carrot juice for color or EO. I did use zeawater but Ive used it b4 and didn’t notice drag.

Do you know if the water in your mom's house is softer or harder than the water at your house? Do either of you use a water softener?

We live in apts. I don’t think I have a softener. Her apt is brand new and might. Do apts ever have softeners?

Next time I visit her, Ill bring my own bar and then Ill kno if its the water. If its the water causing the drag I wonder if its the SW interacting with it. I do use alot of SW...40. Going up to 50 this weekend!

 

[Andrew]

You are correct that 415 SW is partially hydrogenated and you are correct about the similar SAP. However 415 and 27 do not have similar saturation, fatty acid profiles or soap properties.

If someone normally soaps with palm and the recipe has a hardness of 50 and they want to substitute 415 for palm and they use 27 hydro in the calc as you suggest, they can never get the calc to reflect a hardness of 50 because a 100% 27 hydro soap has a hardness of only 24. This may not be problem for a soaper who uses calcs just for lye, but its a problem for those that use the calcs as guides for recipe formulation.

if you look at olive oil in a soap calculator it measures as extremely soft but castile soap is rock hard. The same concept applies to candle wax. This is a very considerable error in the calculators that will throw off your assumptions if you are not aware of it.

 

[amd]

@amd don't you have hard water? how much does that play a roll ?

Yep, we have hard water (I think it's around 9) Rinse off is hard, I notice more of a difference between vegan soaps and non-vegan soaps. The vegan soaps are usually cleaner rinsing, I'm assuming it's because of a lower stearic or lower cleansing number. I'm using a castile in the shower at the moment and it rinses so much better than anything I've used before. Not having used a soy wax or knowing the profile, I don't know if the residue waxy feeling is just a normal result of using it with hard water or the nature of using a wax soap. I'm inclined to think the feel is always there just more noticeable with the hard water. But I'm no expert on hard water or soy wax soaps. Just my two cents.

 

[Andrew]

the only soap I have had drag with was a soap with added glycerin. Since wax has more glycerin than a fat, the soy wax may be the culprit. If it is hard water, you can always add 1% sodium citrate to increase lather and deal with hard water.

 

[RDak]

@KiwiSoap has mentioned this to me too. I wonder if it's to do with the water? We don't have hard water here ( in Hamilton)

Kiwi: If you don't mind, please repeat what calculator you use for the soy wax you use. (IIRC, you use 415 soy wax?)

I went back to see if you do use 20 percent soy wax in your recipes as I remembered it to make sure.

Do you use the Soapbee calculator and the "fully hydrogenated soybean oil" category when calculating the recipe?

Thanks for repeating this for me.

 

[Lin19687]

@amd So did the 9 # of soap you got from me , hee hee, did it clean off well in the hard water?
I wonder since it is a Vegan soap.

 

[amd]

@amd So did the 9 # of soap you got from me , hee hee, did it clean off well in the hard water?
I wonder since it is a Vegan soap.

Yep, rinses really nice! My hubby really likes it. He's a fan of vegan bars because of the clean rinse, probably explains why he likes salt bars so much too. Hmmm... I noticed that he is getting low on his personal salt bar stash. Should I scent that with TPM or his usual Ed Hardy dupe?

 

[Lin19687]

@amd well I have another 6 # of salt bars sitting here