Soy Wax Users

[Richard Dakesian]

In summary does soy wax add any benefits to the soap over tallow, lard or palm?

Or is it mostly used because of environmental issues people have?

 

[Chris_S]

In summary does soy wax add any benefits to the soap over tallow, lard or palm?

Or is it mostly used because of environmental issues people have?

Tallow, lard and palm are not considered vegan friendly. I know palm isnt an animal product but alot of vegans dont use or eat products with it in because of the environment effects the palm oil industry has on the rainforest and native animals habitats are getting destroyed. As far as im aware thats the biggest issue and reason people avoid palm oil. Therefore soy is the cheapest more suitable alternative people have found. Of course some people who arnt vegan and just object to the palm oil indutries general poor and malpractices need an alternative too. Iv used cocoa butter to harden my last palm free soaps which has worked a treat but in england it costs nearly 15 quid per kg of cocoa butter.

Personally i have used palm and will continue to use it in soaps for people who dont have an issue with palm oil myself included. But as i am considering gearing up to get to selling phase i need to do lots of testing and in the uk veganism and anti palm is only increasing so if using soy sets me out from the bigger crowd of soap makers selling thier soaps then thats good enough reason for me to use it or at least try

 

[Richard Dakesian]

Tallow, lard and palm are not considered vegan friendly. I know palm isnt an animal product but alot of vegans dont use or eat products with it in because of the environment effects the palm oil industry has on the rainforest and native animals habitats are getting destroyed. As far as im aware thats the biggest issue and reason people avoid palm oil. Therefore soy is the cheapest more suitable alternative people have found. Of course some people who arnt vegan and just object to the palm oil indutries general poor and malpractices need an alternative too. Iv used cocoa butter to harden my last palm free soaps which has worked a treat but in england it costs nearly 15 quid per kg of cocoa butter.

Personally i have used palm and will continue to use it in soaps for people who dont have an issue with palm oil myself included. But as i am considering gearing up to get to selling phase i need to do lots of testing and in the uk veganism and anti palm is only increasing so if using soy sets me out from the bigger crowd of soap makers selling thier soaps then thats good enough reason for me to use it or at least try

I see......thanks.

 

[deb8907]

I also find that rice bran oil gives a nice sheen to the finished soap.

 

[earlene]

Richard, for me soy wax is an alternative to animal fats, primarily. It is easily obtained here in the US, is not prohibitively expensive and can be used in fairly high percentages making it a better choice than some of the vegetable butters such as shea or cocoa butter.

Another benefit that I see is that my soap with soy wax does not seem to form ash, which is nice because the surface colors remain true rather than to be muted by ash that I have to remove (if so inclined). And I like the sort of shiny finish it produces.

 

[Chris_S]

Richard, for me soy wax is an alternative to animal fats, primarily. It is easily obtained here in the US, is not prohibitively expensive and can be used in fairly high percentages making it a better choice than some of the vegetable butters such as shea or cocoa butter.

Another benefit that I see is that my soap with soy wax does not seem to form ash, which is nice because the surface colors remain true rather than to be muted by ash that I have to remove (if so inclined). And I like the sort of shiny finish it produces.

Interesting comment about the lack of soda ash forming. Do you treat it the same as any other none soy wax soap you have made, like to a light trace then promoting gel? And still no soda ash? Im yet to try soy wax getting a sample bag hopefully tomorrow to try if it avoids soda ash for me too im already won over by it

 

[Richard Dakesian]

Richard, for me soy wax is an alternative to animal fats, primarily. It is easily obtained here in the US, is not prohibitively expensive and can be used in fairly high percentages making it a better choice than some of the vegetable butters such as shea or cocoa butter.

Another benefit that I see is that my soap with soy wax does not seem to form ash, which is nice because the surface colors remain true rather than to be muted by ash that I have to remove (if so inclined). And I like the sort of shiny finish it produces.

Thank you...…...I always use about 5% shea……...would the soy wax be better for the skin?

 

[earlene]

As far as better for the skin, I can't say, really. But if you feel that the shea imparts some benefit to the skin in soap (I don't, but if you do, that is fine), you can still use shea in the formula. I am not as fond of shea as the industry seems to suggest.

Re: soda ash - Yes, other than any temperature concerns, I do treat most of my soap the same in terms of gelling. Not all soap I make is taken only to light trace, however. It depends on design plans (swirls, etc.) For the most part I gel my soaps, but occasionally not. I don't think I have ever tried a non-gelled soy soap, however.

 

[Richard Dakesian]

As far as better for the skin, I can't say, really. But if you feel that the shea imparts some benefit to the skin in soap (I don't, but if you do, that is fine), you can still use shea in the formula. I am not as fond of shea as the industry seems to suggest.

Re: soda ash - Yes, other than any temperature concerns, I do treat most of my soap the same in terms of gelling. Not all soap I make is taken only to light trace, however. It depends on design plans (swirls, etc.) For the most part I gel my soaps, but occasionally not. I don't think I have ever tried a non-gelled soy soap, however.

Thanks, maybe I will just ditch the shea.

I have used shea for so long at 5% that I have forgotten if it helps or not. LOL!!

 

[Atihcnoc]

Another benefit that I see is that my soap with soy wax does not seem to form ash, which is nice because the surface colors remain true rather than to be muted by ash that I have to remove (if so inclined). And I like the sort of shiny finish it produces.

Do you mind to share the percentage of soy wax is working for you?

Normally I spray with alcohol the tops of my soaps as soon as I pour it in the mold to avoid the ash, as well sometimes I just covered the top with "Saran wrap" (polyethylene food wrap) and also works for me.

 

[earlene]

I like at least 30% soy wax, although others use more and love a higher percentage.

For me the alcohol spray, even with the 91% alcohol, does not give me consistent results for preventing soda ash. Rather than plastic wrap (which I have used in the past, but don't really like due to condensation issues), I use a piece of cardboard as a cover, although it doesn't touch the top of the soap like plastic wrap can. For some reason some people have a lot more luck preventing ash than others. I am sure there are lots of reasons, and the actual soap recipe probably has something to do with that as well as all the other adjuncts one can throw into the mix.

 

[Atihcnoc]

I like at least 30% soy wax, although others use more and love a higher percentage.

Thank you Earlene.

 

[KiwiMoose]

This is the recipe I'm talking about, I made a small amount as was a test for the use of soy wax, I made 1 kilo batch.

When I'm testing a recipe I have a rule, small batch and no additives or fragrances nor essential oils as I want to see how the recipe really behave.

I have a mold of 450g that it's the one I use for the test of my recipes, because this one have soy wax I decided to make 1 kilo batch instead of 450g.

Method: CPOLP (just the light on, not the oven).
S.F.10% Cc 30%
Beer as liquid

31% Palm
28% Lard
21% Palm Kernel oil flakes
10% Avocado oil
5% Castor oil
5% Soy Wax

F.O. or E.O.: No
Sugar: No
Other additives: No

Days before put the beer in a pot
and on low heat put the beer to reduce by half to ensure it has no alcohol, I weighed the amount I needed and I froze it. Add the Sodium hidroxide to the frozen beer and move it with a spoon to be sure it was very well dissolved.

In another container I put the hard oils and soy wax to be melted then add the liquid oils, check the temp and it was 130F and the lye at 120F, I mix both and start to use the stick blender, almost immediatelly the mix became very thick, hard...almost imposible to mix, I continue with the stick blender up and down and move to a spoon but it was imposible to move so I decided to put it in the mold with the help of the spoon, I put it in the oven with just the light on, after six hours was hard as a rock and imposible to cut, so I decided to unmold and grate the soap for a rebatch.

Well that was my experience with soy wax, I try the same recipe with different temperatures with the same result, so I decided to quit on the soy wax until I found KiwiMoose recipe and saw her soaps, so I want to try again with her recipe to see how it goes.

I know the recipe is 85% hard oils and 15% liquid oils, but I repeat the test without soy and behave perfectly, I changed soy wax for RBO.

Please let me know if somebody repeat this recipe and how it goes.

Enjoy making soap!!!

Sorry i didn't realise this was here about the beer. I don't think it would be the soy wax, I made a successful beer soap using 20% soy wax with no acceleration at all. I think the issue was with the quantity of hard oils you have? My recipe is 20/20/20 Olive, Coconut and Soy Wax then usually 15 RBO, 10 Shea, 10 Avocado and 5 castor. I mix those quantities and oils up a bit sometimes but it's only 50% hard oils.

 

[earlene]

That recipe you have there Atihcnoc, has so much stearic in it already, plus all the sugar in the beer. Only 5% soy wax shouldn't make so much difference over-all. But if you use the exact same recipe with the only change being the soy wax, what else changed? Did you reduce one of the other stearic containing oils (palm or pko?) If not, then perhaps the added stearic was too much. Or is this a completely new-to-you recipe?

Personally I would not try a new-to-me oil with a beer soap because the beer adds its own complications that can interfere with trying to evaluate how the new oil will perform. Also that's a huge batch for a test batch, which you do not normally do, but I don't understand why you more than doubled your usual test batch size.

What were you trying to learn from the soy wax as an ingredient in the soap? If you want to learn if it is a good animal product replacement or a good palm replacement, then you'd have to use it as such and eliminate the lard or the palm to see how well it replaces either. But to just add 5% and keep the others wouldn't tell you much in terms of soy as a replacement. But if that's not what you were trying to learn from soy wax, then what? I am truly curious what your goal was in this experiment.

 

[RDak]

Does soy wax reduce, increase or keep lather the same if it replaces lard, tallow or palm? (And everything else stays the same in a recipe.)

Thanks for any info.

 

[Dean]

Does soy wax reduce, increase or keep lather the same if it replaces lard, tallow or palm? (And everything else stays the same in a recipe.)

Thanks for any info.

http://www.zensoaps.com/singleoil.htm

 

[KiwiMoose]

Does soy wax reduce, increase or keep lather the same if it replaces lard, tallow or palm? (And everything else stays the same in a recipe.)

Thanks for any info.

I can't speak for replacement of any of those three because I've never used them. I use about 20% soy wax as my 'hardener' for want of a better word, to replace the need for any of those three. I also use 10 - 15% shea butter in every batch and my soaps seem to have a lovely lather. I use 20 % CO as well and the rest soft oils.

 

[RDak]

Thanks guys!

 

[Andrew]

Does soy wax reduce, increase or keep lather the same if it replaces lard, tallow or palm? (And everything else stays the same in a recipe.)

Thanks for any info.

Soy wax is not a substitute for lard, tallow, or palm. It is 98% stearic/palmitic acid. You can look instead at cocoa, mango, kokum, illipe, and shea butters. Cocoa/kokum will be the closest. Mango will be pretty similar and shea will have less stearic acid.

 

[Dean]

Soy wax is not a substitute for lard, tallow, or palm. It is 98% stearic/palmitic acid. You can look instead at cocoa, mango, kokum, illipe, and shea butters. Cocoa/kokum will be the closest. Mango will be pretty similar and shea will have less stearic acid.

Andrew has a point. I wouldn't swap out any oil, without seeing how it effects the fatty acid profile and properties. If you have a recipe that you like and you want to swap out lard, tallow or palm for SW, you will likely need to adjust all the percentages oils to get to same fatty acid profile or properties that your original recipe has.