Soy Wax Users

[KiwiMoose]

Thanks @Richard Perrine and @Dean . I don't take my temps either so I don't really know what temperature it is. I can hazard a guess about 35 degrees - 40 degrees at most. (95 - 105f). I am a little torn between the 'soap cool' advice to keep the soap batter workable to do designs, and the need to keep the soy wax warm in order to stop if from setting up. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Richard Perrine]

Thanks @Richard Perrine and @Dean . I don't take my temps either so I don't really know what temperature it is. I can hazard a guess about 35 degrees - 40 degrees at most. (95 - 105f). I am a little torn between the 'soap cool' advice to keep the soap batter workable to do designs, and the need to keep the soy wax warm in order to stop if from setting up. What are your thoughts on this?

I don’t do many colorful swirling, etc., so I keep the temps up to prevent premature setting as I add my EOs. I pour at temps above 120 all the time and have had no problems.

 

[KiwiMoose]

A lot of commercial soap has sodium tallowate = tallow (beef fat). Including NZ protex soap, Palmolive Cashmere Bouquet etc.

So tonight I looked in the supermarket (Countdown, which is also in Australia) at all the soaps and NONE of them had sodium tallowate in them, but all of them had Palm in them. Including Dove. What was noticeable was the very small range available. There were twice as many liquid soaps as there were bar soaps. We pretty much had truckloads of Palmolive, truckloads of Lux, a bit of protex,Dove and Pears and a couple of 'eco friendly' ones and that was it!

 

[SaltedFig]

Palmolive, LUX, Dove, Protex are all owned by one company. Pears is majority owned by the same company. Not much variety in the ingredients, because there's NO variety in the suppliers.

Except for one, the Imperial Leather is from the makers of Fudge colours

(Same supermarket logo, different company name - clever logo design I reckon, to be able to cover both).

 

[KimT2au]

@KimT2au I used to go to weight watchers in Romford. I lived in Ilford.
My son is still allergic to eggs and nuts. He can now tolerate dairy but does not have a taste for it so he drinks SOY milk.

Would you believe that I lot weight with WW in Romford and then went on to be a WW leader after that. I had 3 groups but my biggest one was in Upminster.

 

[Dean]

So tonight I looked in the supermarket (Countdown, which is also in Australia) at all the soaps and NONE of them had sodium tallowate in them, but all of them had Palm in them. Including Dove. What was noticeable was the very small range available. There were twice as many liquid soaps as there were bar soaps. We pretty much had truckloads of Palmolive, truckloads of Lux, a bit of protex,Dove and Pears and a couple of 'eco friendly' ones and that was it!
View attachment 35305

My ridiculous dream is to create a vegan palm-free soap with mass appeal that could be sold in health food stores which have gone from hippy to corporate here. I’ve looked at the brands at health food stores but they had animal ingredients, palm or weird ingredients or scents. The major “natural” brand here Dr. Bronner which is high in CO (drying) and palm. I used it b4 making my own. The challenge would be launching, marketing, scaling up for store sales and then handing it over to manufacturer for mass production. Bronner is near where I live. I asked for a tour but they said they didn’t want no lookyloos snooping around their soap.

I couldn’t do craft fairs tho...sitting around all day watching STRANGERS touch my beloved babies with their filthy paws. I’d be shooing and be slapping hands all day. Anyway, I went to a craft fair in the last yr. There were SO many soap vendors that I quit counting.

 

[lsg]

I think I will give soy wax a try. Will let you know how I like the results.

 

[Chris_S]

My ridiculous dream is to create a vegan palm-free soap with mass appeal that could be sold in health food stores which have gone from hippy to corporate here. I’ve looked at the brands at health food stores but they had animal ingredients, palm or weird ingredients or scents. The major “natural” brand here Dr. Bronner which is high in CO (drying) and palm. I used it b4 making my own. The challenge would be launching, marketing, scaling up for store sales and then handing it over to manufacturer for mass production. Bronner is near where I live. I asked for a tour but they said they didn’t want no lookyloos snooping around their soap.

I couldn’t do craft fairs tho...sitting around all day watching STRANGERS touch my beloved babies with their filthy paws. I’d be shooing and be slapping hands all day. Anyway, I went to a craft fair in the last yr. There were SO many soap vendors that I quit counting.

Not really tottally relivant because it doesnt involve soy wax being used but i have found a recipe that i tried last night unfortuatly 3/4 of that ended up on my soaping room floor so take 2 is coming tonight. Its lard/tallow free and also has no palm products in there iv had to adapt the recipe slightly to suit what oils i have but the cb % isnt even that high so if you would like some feedback ill tag you when its made and then when its cured so you might be able to maybe trying that? ps wont be offended if your not interested though

 

[KiwiMoose]

Would you believe that I lot weight with WW in Romford and then went on to be a WW leader after that. I had 3 groups but my biggest one was in Upminster.

small world! Now we make soap we don't need to eat, lol.

I think I will give soy wax a try. Will let you know how I like the results.

Feel free to tweak my recipe back there ^ and let me know how your soap works out. I'm always interested in new recipes to try. I'm still honing mine to get it exactly how I want it.

 

[lenarenee]

I know I said I didn't want to enter into any debates, BUT....

I started to ponder the many comments and outright negativity towards SW by many on this site. It's interesting how we don't have that so much in New Zealand, but we do get it against Palm oil. I think it has all comes down to propaganda, for both types of oil.

Our propaganda in NZ is greatly focused against palm for deforestation issues, and also seemingly 'sustainable' sources still being exploitative of the land and workers thereof (search Guatemalan Palm Oil farmers exploitation).

Whereas I think in the USA there seems to be a lot of propaganda against soy - mainly from the dairy and or meat industry who want to stop the migration of consumers from animal products to soy products (search anti soy campaigns USA). Notwithstanding - I think we are all agreed that Monsanto's GMO and dirty tactics against the small farmers - accusing them of 'theft' because the farmers' organic soy was being cross pollinated with Monsanto's 'super soy' - is unacceptable.

Because we don't grow soy, or palm, in New Zealand - I guess the media feeds us with the stories most relevant to us, and palm being the closer geographically (main crops are in Asia) gets the main rap.

So all that said, I think there are reasons to use, or not to use, either of these oils depending on which facts or elaborations of facts ( or even outright lies in some cases) you choose to accept or ignore.

All I know is - in New Zealand, people WILL ask if the soap is palm free, because that is what they know to ask. No-one would bat an eyelid about soy. I'm guessing it's the same for soy in USA - people WILL ask if it is soy- free (or at least baulk at the idea of having soy in their soap) but not mind so much about palm.

Then of course - there is the difference between what people will eat, and what they will put on their body. I will eat soy, and so therefore when wanting to make a vegan soap, soy is my preference. I won't eat palm, so....won't use it in my soap either. And, you may have palm in a lot of your products in the USA, but we don't here to the extreme that you do, and certainly not if food is prepared from scratch, which is still fairly common in the NZ household, although less so in the last decade or so. It is rare that anyone would use a product such as your 'Crisco'. people simply don't use that kind of thing in cooking any more. We do have a similar product, but it's made with coconut oil, and it is certainly not a common household item (very hard to find in the supermarkets).

I'm not vegan, nor vegetarian. I love me bacon! But I don't want to make animal fat soaps. I have nothing against animal fat soaps. I'm sure they are lovely, and I don't doubt that they produce a good bar of soap. I just don't want to use it in my soap that I make.

Anyhoo - what a conundrum! I want to make vegan soap, and only vegan soap. If I want a hard bar and don't want to spend a fortune, I either make salt soaps only for the rest of my life, or I use either palm, or soy. I've chosen soy. many of you have chosen palm.

So let's go forth and make soap happily with our chosen 'politically incorrect', non-sustainable, questionably sustainable, genetically modified, Monsanto tainted, dairy/meat industry hate-campaigned OIL OF CHOICE.

I hope you didn't feel the need to "debate" because of my comment. I'm open to trying soy wax in my soap if it's solvent free and preferably organic. However, I won't eat soy due to its hormonal effects, plus the fact that much of it is incredibly gmo. I played in soy bean fields as a kid - picked a few pods and chewed the beans. Today's soy beans look NOTHING like they used - I don't even recognize them as soy beans.

As for your impression that soy is now a big no-no in the US - I don't see it. It's still very much pushed as a health food, vegetarian and vegan protein source, its oil good to cook with, soy wax candles are still king. Soy is touted as sustainable - and that it's good to support your local American farmer.

The little negative I see comes from the much smaller populations like the super health conscious that are starting to think soy's phytoestrogens are not the good kind.

Yeah, a vegan palm free soap is expensive to make if you use the typical high olive oil and butter recipe. I've run the numbers - OUCH (and I'm in the US). I've also used some of those recipes, and while I'm always fascinated by and appreciate any recipe - I don't like how those bars perform after repeated us and won't make them myself.

 

[Dean]

I think I will give soy wax a try. Will let you know how I like the results.

Once u go wax u wont go back.

 

[Meena]

I’ve noticed recently the dairy industry targeting plant based alternatives with neg mrktg campains. However I never connected neg mrktg to this new consumer belief that soy is BAD. But it does explain the “no soy” labels on products.

Hi Dean - No, that does not explain the 'no soy' on labels. Soy is actually really bad for you unless it's fermented. Soy is an endocrine disruptor and worse, and 90+% is GMO which introduces even more health risks and damage. In soap, i guess it would be okay since not ingesting it, but I go wayyyyyy out of my way to ensure that not one red cent of mine goes toward anything made or owned by Monsanto, Bayer, and all those other ex-military, now-supposed-food-producing monsters!
More than you ever wanted to know about (ingesting) soy here ==> https://www.google.com/search?q=dr+...rome..69i57.4613j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
selected examples:
Antinutrients are elements and compounds in soy foods such as lectins, saponins, soyatoxin, phytates (which prevent the absorption of certain minerals), oxalates, protease inhibitors, estrogens (which can block the hormone estrogen and disrupt endocrine function) and goitrogens (interfering with your thyroid function) as well as a blood clot-inhibiting substance called hemagglutinin. Other detriments are numerous.
. . .
Numerous Asian populations, typically Japanese, who are arguably healthier than those eating a Western diet, have traditionally eaten fermented soy, such as miso, natto and tempeh, which helps to deactivate some of the antinutrients soy contains
. . .
In a seemingly contradictive result of eating bean curd, (the article) adds results of research (12) done on ancient Buddhist monks who were both vegan and celibate who happily reported that “eating a lot of soy dampened their libido and reproductive capacity.”(13) In addition:

“Food manufacturers create modern tofu (using a similar process). However, the traditional coagulants were typically safer. For example, clean, fresh seawater makes an excellent coagulant to transform soy milk into tofu. Compare this to the refined salts or GMO-derived citric acid used today.”(14)

END RANT

 

[KiwiMoose]

So only three people on here to talk about the use of soy-wax with then?

 

[MarnieSoapien]

Sorry, I'm late to the party. I haven't used soy wax yet. I was going to order some, but found non-GMO, cosmetic grade, rapeseed wax from an EU distributor as an alternative to soy wax. I have a recipe that I want to try out. I kinda feel like I'm in uncharted territory here, since I've looked on the forum and haven't seen anyone using rapeseed wax for soaping. I don't want to use palm oil or tallow (here in the EU, if you sell your products they need to have a chemical analysis done and I don't know how that would work with a tallow. I think I would have to have each batch of soap tested every time I used a new batch of tallow. And the chemical analysis costs around $500 for each test.) I'll let you know if 5 weeks how it turns out.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Sorry, I'm late to the party. I haven't used soy wax yet. I was going to order some, but found non-GMO, cosmetic grade, rapeseed wax from an EU distributor as an alternative to soy wax. I have a recipe that I want to try out. I kinda feel like I'm in uncharted territory here, since I've looked on the forum and haven't seen anyone using rapeseed wax for soaping. I don't want to use palm oil or tallow (here in the EU, if you sell your products they need to have a chemical analysis done and I don't know how that would work with a tallow. I think I would have to have each batch of soap tested every time I used a new batch of tallow. And the chemical analysis costs around $500 for each test.) I'll let you know if 5 weeks how it turns out.

That sounds interesting. Let us know how it goes

 

[msunnerstood]

You mean soy wax?

Yes soy wax

 

[Meena]

My ridiculous dream is to create a vegan palm-free soap with mass appeal that could be sold in health food stores which have gone from hippy to corporate here. I’ve looked at the brands at health food stores but they had animal ingredients, palm or weird ingredients or scents. The major “natural” brand here Dr. Bronner which is high in CO (drying) and palm. I used it b4 making my own. The challenge would be launching, marketing, scaling up for store sales and then handing it over to manufacturer for mass production.

Tsk, Dean - there are no ridiculous dreams. I think you have a wonderful dream and purpose, and I wish you great success in developing your vegan soaps. <3

 

[Hendejm]

I think the issue with soy in the United States is it’s possible correlation to cancers and the production of estrogen in pre and post menapausal women. Doctors will tell women of a certain age to avoids soy based foods. This isn’t in reference to topical products but rather ingested products. If you care to read it there is a study by Harvard University that puts it in laymen’s terms...
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/soy/
Of course there is the whole Monsanto/roundup/gmo debate as well but that is a different subject that speaks to morality/greater good/etc

 

[KiwiMoose]

Again - it depends on what you read and how much credence you give to your source. There are 'fors and againsts' for any argument. The whole oestrogen thing has apparently been taken out of context, as it's not the same type of oestrogen as produced by humans. And anyway - we are not eating the stuff when in soap.
But once again, instead of trying to engage in discussion about the USE of the product in soap, this thread has now turned into a debate about whether to not we SHOULD use soy.
Just what I requested in the OP that it didn't want!

 

[Hendejm]

Again - it depends on what you read and how much credence you give to your source. There are 'fors and againsts' for any argument. The whole oestrogen thing has apparently been taken out of context, as it's not the same type of oestrogen as produced by humans. And anyway - we are not eating the stuff when in soap.
But once again, instead of trying to engage in discussion about the USE of the product in soap, this thread has now turned into a debate about whether to not we SHOULD use soy.
Just what I requested in the OP that it didn't want!

Sorry! I was just giving context to why it is an issue in the United States.... I’m for the use of soy! Use whatever works I say.