Soy wax for shaving soap?

[pmartin]

My girlfriend bought some Eco wax 415 to use in her candles. From reading through the mega shave soap thread I found this is used to make shave soap. I’ve made 5 small batches of varying shave soaps so far. Now my curious nature wants to try the soy wax but CP. Perfect timing since my little crock pot died on my last batch.

Can anyone with soy wax and shave soap experience give me some direction please? I have small amounts of coconut, castor and shea butter left over. I also have some tallow left but since I want to CP and won’t have the control over the superfat I think I’ll leave that one out.

My main question is what is a good percentage of soy wax to use? Since it’s 85% Stearic instead of my usual stearic/palmatic blend I’m wondering if I should use the 50-60% I’ve used in the past? Maybe go lower like 40%? I really don’t know what to do. I don’t have a lot of ingredients left so I can’t try different batches to see for myself without buying more.

Thanks in advance for helping me out!

 

[psfred]

I found that using the same proportion of soy wax as "stearic acid" produced a harder soap with higher stearic acid content (70% of fatty acids rather than 60%). Shaves just fine, but take a bit longer to lather up, I think it's a bit less soluble. 40% is probably better, and I plan to use that ratio next time I make shave soap.

That may be a while, I have about 20 years worth at the moment.

Next time you make something with ground beer, buy the cheap (high fat) stuff, and collect the fat while it still has some water in it -- don't let the meat start to actually brown. Render it a couple times, and you have free tallow. If you let the meat actually brown, though, all your soap will smell like a hamburger right off the grill....

 

[pmartin]

Thanks for the reply. Have you ever tried to CP shave soap with soy. Just curious if you had any tips on that.

I had a bunch of shave soaps but I joined a FB group and gave away a lot of them.

I think I’ll try the 50% soy. Playing with the calculator I can get the stearic and palmatic to around 60% with what I have on hand for supplies. I still have some tallow left but not being able to control the superfat with CP I’m not going to use it. Not sure I want to have who knows how much tallow left unsaponified.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I use SW for CP soap all the time (every batch) but I've never made shave soap. If I can be of any help please let me know. I use 20 - 25% in my CP soap.

 

[pmartin]

Thank you KiwiMoose!

Well I made my soap this morning. What a mess! I tried it CP. I wasn’t thinking straight and added about 9% glycerin without discounting that from my liquid. Im so used to making HP. It all came to trace beautifully and according to my infrared thermo, it was about 150f. I was trying to soap hot so the soy wax would stay melted. I also added about 2% of fragrance. I poured it into my molds and all looked well for about 2 minutes. Then all sorts of clear liquid started seeping up and pooling on the top. I wasn’t sure if it was separating or what. It didn’t really look like oil, then it hit me. Maybe too much glycerin and combined liquid. In a panic to try and save it I scooped the soap into an old pot and cooked it on low on the stove. It behaved like normal HP soap and looked much better. Cooked it for about 1/2 hour. I lathered up some leftover from my spatula and for super fresh soap it did pretty well. Maybe not as dense as my normal stearic/palmatic blend but I was sorta traumitized by the whole episode so I wasn’t really dialed in. I’m sure it will get better with some time.

My recipe was,

40% soy wax
35% tallow (I used tallow after all)
20% coconut oil
5% shea

60/40 koh/naoh split
Full water
9% glycerin
3% lanolin ( not figured in, just added...dumb, I know)

I’ll give a report in a few days on the lather.

 

[earlene]

pmartin, I hope it turns out and look forward to hearing how it cures.

I don't know how that much added glycerin will play out in the soap, but I still have some soap I made with too much added glycerin and after two years it still is too soft to use as bar soap. I re-batched most of it, but saved some to see what would happen. So far, nothing has happened. Of course, you have a lot more hard oils in your recipe, so it may not turn out as mine did. I had not started using soy wax yet, and did not use any animal fats either. So here's hoping the tallow, soy & CO and the bit of shea will provide enough stearic and palmitic to offset the additonal glycerin and your soap will harden.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I soap at about 40 degrees Celsius using SW 415 ( a guesstimate because I’ve never checked temp). It’s warm to the touch but not hot.
You probably don’t need to keep it as hot as 150f?

 

[GreenDragon]

IMHO I think that anytime you are making shaving soap either with SA or SW you should consider it a HP process due to the higher temperatures required to keep your hard oils melted. When I make shaving soap, I essentially make two soaps at once, and combine them. I calculate one batch using only SA and KOH, and set the superfat to 0%. I calculate a second batch using all the rest of my oils using a mixed lye of NaOH/KOH and whatever superfat percentage I want. I melt my SA in a small crock pot, and the rest of my oils in a separate bowl (these I keep fairly hot as I don't want to seize up my SA mixture when I add it later). I then add the KOH mix to the SA and stick blend for a minute. I add the other lye mixture to the rest of the oils and SB for a minute, then add this mixture to the crock pot and SB some more until fully combined. I let it "cook" for 5 minutes, stirring occasionally, do a final quick SB, then dish it out. Give it a try - I always get great results!

 

[pmartin]

Update - the soap came out of their molds just fine. They are pretty firm but a little sticky from all the added glycerin. Lather isn’t bad. Definite room for improvement.

Question for those that use hydrogenated soy wax. Does it turn your soap a yellowish orange color? I’ve used the same recipe but with stearic and they came out white, these are yellow/orange.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Update - the soap came out of their molds just fine. They are pretty firm but a little sticky from all the added glycerin. Lather isn’t bad. Definite room for improvement.

Question for those that use hydrogenated soy wax. Does it turn your soap a yellowish orange color? I’ve used the same recipe but with stearic and they came out white, these are yellow/orange.

Nope. Unless I have other oils that are yellow.