Soothing moisturizing bar

[isha]

Hi all
I nees some help... Can we create a soap that doesny dry ur skin... I mean there ia no need for lotion or moisturing after bath??

Ive tried many soaps with various addatives.. But nothing seems to work.

My basic recepie revolves around
33 .%lye concentration.. Tried sf from 3-10
Oils used cononut 10-15%
Pomace 30%
Sunflower 10%
Palm 40 -50%
Castor 5-7%
Ive tried addatives like tomato, milk, oats n honey, payapa, aloe vera coffee, clay etc

I end up having dry hands... N show wrinkles on my middle aged hand..

What i observed that when i increase the amount od castor the bar becomes. slimy but is sti dry to my liking
The same bar suits others who have tried..
I feel i need some deep conditioning..
Can someone help me understand what i shld be changing or what addative should i add in what amount..

Appreciate ur help.

 

[BattleGnome]

How long is your cure? What other oils do you have available to you? Do you use commercial soaps in other parts of your life?

A longer cure can take a soap that’s just ok to a soap that’s amazing. I call it an indescribable magic but DeeAnna does have an actual science reason about what goes on. If you only cure your soaps for a 4-6 weeks, try a bar at 6 months, then a year. A well made bar only gets better and better.

Some people don’t like high oleic soaps, it’s just a skin type vs the fatty acid. Other people have issues with any coconut at all. If you have other oils available we can help formulate some alternate ideas, lard is very skin friendly. An easy change with what you have now, drop the pomace and put that percentage into the sunflower (total of 40%). It will give you a chance to see if one oil is the issue, the batch after that get rid of a different oil and see how you react. For all we know, you may have just discovered a mild irritation you didn’t know you had.

I ask if you use commercial soaps because I find that since I switched to homemade soaps at home my hands are less tolerant of other soaps. If I have to wash my hands an excess amount at work I need more lotion than I would on my day off when I can use my own soaps at home.

 

[Saponificarian]

Two things does come to mind looking at your recipe based on my limited experience.

My skin doesn’t like a soap with Sunflower oil AND Cleansing oils (PKO, Coconut) together in a recipe. Now I use either 20% - 30% Sunflower oil or 10% - 20% Coconut/PKO depending on other oils. I don’t know why this is so but just something I have noticed. Soaps that have both that are over 6months old are okay now. Really nice but before 6 months, not so great.

Or you could be sensitive to either Coconut or Olive oil. Some people have sensitivities to Coconut oil and High Oleic acid soaps (High Olive oil) but looking at your recipe, I think your Oleic acid is okay except you have sensitivity to it.

And of course Time. You can’t rush a great soap. It takes Time to make a great soap but a good soap should be ready in 6-8 weeks with a good recipe.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...I call it an indescribable magic but DeeAnna does have an actual science reason about what goes on...."

I'm all for "indescribable magic" -- that works for me!

"...Can we create a soap that doesny dry ur skin... I mean there ia no need for lotion or moisturing after bath??..."

The short answer is "no." You're expecting two contradictory things -- a cleanser to remove oils and dirt from the skin and a conditioner to add oils to the skin. Pick one!

You can make a mild, gentle soap -- or you can make a strongly cleansing and stripping soap -- or you can make a soap somewhere in between. I guarantee you cannot make a soap that will also condition and thus eliminate the need for lotion.

As the others are pointing out, you may be sensitive to soap made with certain types of fats. Dryness and sensitivity are two different things.

A good first suggestion is to eliminate all fats with lauric and myristic acids in them -- that would be coconut oil, palm kernel oil, or babassu.

 

[Obsidian]

There will be as many different answers as there are kinds of soap. Someone will probably suggest a 100% OO soap cured for a year but then someone like me will come along and say high OO is terrible. You will really have to play around with different formulas. Keep in mind that some people just don't tolerate lye soap of any kind, even the mildest.

Are you vegetarian? If not I would really try lard, its a lot gentler than palm and makes a nice had, long lasting bar. I have very sensitive skin, too much oleic acid or butters and my skin gets tight, too much coconut dries me out, too much palm cracks my skin. I spent two years trying all kinds of recipes, in the end, a nice simple balanced recipe was the best for me.

50% lard. Palm will also work but won't be as nice.
15% coconut
25% olive or avocado oil
10% castor
I make this with 5% SF and aloe juice. Let cure at least 8 weeks.

Another version would be to drop the coconut down to 5% and add 10% neem oil. I really like neem in soap

As far as additives. I don't believe they do much for the skin. Between the lye destroying or altering most organic materials and the short amount of time soap is on the skin, there just isn't much chance for the skin to benefit.
The exception to this is clay, that stuff is evil to my skin. Even a small amount will suck all the moisture out of my skin.
The aloe juice I use is the help boost bubbles and make the lather creamier.

 

[earlene]

For me, I have some soaps that do exactly what you are seeking, but that's for my elderly skin. Also works for my DIL's skin as she reported to me. BUT, I do notice that there are other factors that impact how dry my skin gets, even with my mildest and most luxurious soaps. Wintertime use of heat without a de-humidifier makes my skin dry out more. Wearing certain socks (the fabric of which they are made) makes the skin on my feet dry out more. I tend to wear zorries only whenever I can, and prefer no socks at all, but in winter my feet get cold, so I wear socks with my zorries. I would never have thought of a fabric causing skin dryness, would you?

So in the winter time, I do need to use moisturizer once in awhile. Not every single day, but more than I do any other time of the year.

It takes a bit of trial and error, or sometimes, just a happy accident, to find a formula that works best on your own skin. For me it started out as a happy accident. I was not trying to formulate a 'moisturizing' or non-drying soap, and just happened to stumbled upon one that my skin really loves. Another one was just an experimental use of a soap recipe I found that sounded interesting and it contains egg yolk. I found that soap to be so fabulous on my skin, but strangely it actually had more CO than my skin normally can tolerate. So again, happy accident. Later when I realized which formulas seem to work best for me, I began to try variations on those formulas because I really do like to experiment.

Another thing I have discovered is that sometimes all it takes is a really long cure, and a soap that I was not impressed with turned out to be not at all drying to my skin after several month's cure.

I don't use much CO, only sometimes do I use palm & when I do it's in small amounts, rarely do I personally use soap with animal fats (only for family do I make those soaps, but I do test them occasionally). I keep my superfat low. Lye concentration doesn't seem to play a part in mildness or anything other than how fast I can unmold and cut my soap and how fast it loses water.

 

[isha]

How long is your cure? What other oils do you have available to you? Do you use commercial soaps in other parts of your life?

A longer cure can take a soap that’s just ok to a soap that’s amazing. I call it an indescribable magic but DeeAnna does have an actual science reason about what goes on. If you only cure your soaps for a 4-6 weeks, try a bar at 6 months, then a year. A well made bar only gets better and better.

Some people don’t like high oleic soaps, it’s just a skin type vs the fatty acid. Other people have issues with any coconut at all. If you have other oils available we can help formulate some alternate ideas, lard is very skin friendly. An easy change with what you have now, drop the pomace and put that percentage into the sunflower (total of 40%). It will give you a chance to see if one oil is the issue, the batch after that get rid of a different oil and see how you react. For all we know, you may have just discovered a mild irritation you didn’t know you had.

I ask if you use commercial soaps because I find that since I switched to homemade soaps at home my hands are less tolerant of other soaps. If I have to wash my hands an excess amount at work I need more lotion than I would on my day off when I can use my own soaps at home.

I dont use commercial soaps at all. Just handmade soaps... I also sont have lard available. I have rice bran. Sun flower soyabean. Coconut ,mustard groundnut..

No lard or tallow. I dont use coconut on hair. It gives me dandruff so tats something to thibk about. But i just add it for lather..
Cured for about 8 weeks

 

[isha]

"...I call it an indescribable magic but DeeAnna does have an actual science reason about what goes on...."

I'm all for "indescribable magic" -- that works for me!

"...Can we create a soap that doesny dry ur skin... I mean there ia no need for lotion or moisturing after bath??..."

The short answer is "no." You're expecting two contradictory things -- a cleanser to remove oils and dirt from the skin and a conditioner to add oils to the skin. Pick one!

You can make a mild, gentle soap -- or you can make a strongly cleansing and stripping soap -- or you can make a soap somewhere in between. I guarantee you cannot make a soap that will also condition and thus eliminate the need for lotion.

As the others are pointing out, you may be sensitive to soap made with certain types of fats. Dryness and sensitivity are two different things.

A good first suggestion is to eliminate all fats with lauric and myristic acids in them -- that would be coconut oil, palm kernel oil, or babassu.

Thanks deeanna.. What do i replace coconut oil with.. In order to get lather? Will adding sugar do a trick.
I also have extremely hard water n i shower in hot water..
Can these factors also play a part to the dryness.
I guess i need to spend some time reading on fatty acids profile..
Is there a link i can follow?

 

[isha]

There will be as many different answers as there are kinds of soap. Someone will probably suggest a 100% OO soap cured for a year but then someone like me will come along and say high OO is terrible. You will really have to play around with different formulas. Keep in mind that some people just don't tolerate lye soap of any kind, even the mildest.

Are you vegetarian? If not I would really try lard, its a lot gentler than palm and makes a nice had, long lasting bar. I have very sensitive skin, too much oleic acid or butters and my skin gets tight, too much coconut dries me out, too much palm cracks my skin. I spent two years trying all kinds of recipes, in the end, a nice simple balanced recipe was the best for me.

50% lard. Palm will also work but won't be as nice.
15% coconut
25% olive or avocado oil
10% castor
I make this with 5% SF and aloe juice. Let cure at least 8 weeks.

Another version would be to drop the coconut down to 5% and add 10% neem oil. I really like neem in soap

As far as additives. I don't believe they do much for the skin. Between the lye destroying or altering most organic materials and the short amount of time soap is on the skin, there just isn't much chance for the skin to benefit.
The exception to this is clay, that stuff is evil to my skin. Even a small amount will suck all the moisture out of my skin.
The aloe juice I use is the help boost bubbles and make the lather creamier.

Thanks.... Ive use kaolin clay in some soaps but they felt good n nor drying as the others..
I will try out ur suggestions. Yes im a vegetarian.. Lard n tallow r not availble to me..
However i can soap with egg ...

 

[isha]

For me, I have some soaps that do exactly what you are seeking, but that's for my elderly skin. Also works for my DIL's skin as she reported to me. BUT, I do notice that there are other factors that impact how dry my skin gets, even with my mildest and most luxurious soaps. Wintertime use of heat without a de-humidifier makes my skin dry out more. Wearing certain socks (the fabric of which they are made) makes the skin on my feet dry out more. I tend to wear zorries only whenever I can, and prefer no socks at all, but in winter my feet get cold, so I wear socks with my zorries. I would never have thought of a fabric causing skin dryness, would you?

So in the winter time, I do need to use moisturizer once in awhile. Not every single day, but more than I do any other time of the year.

It takes a bit of trial and error, or sometimes, just a happy accident, to find a formula that works best on your own skin. For me it started out as a happy accident. I was not trying to formulate a 'moisturizing' or non-drying soap, and just happened to stumbled upon one that my skin really loves. Another one was just an experimental use of a soap recipe I found that sounded interesting and it contains egg yolk. I found that soap to be so fabulous on my skin, but strangely it actually had more CO than my skin normally can tolerate. So again, happy accident. Later when I realized which formulas seem to work best for me, I began to try variations on those formulas because I really do like to experiment.

Another thing I have discovered is that sometimes all it takes is a really long cure, and a soap that I was not impressed with turned out to be not at all drying to my skin after several month's cure.

I don't use much CO, only sometimes do I use palm & when I do it's in small amounts, rarely do I personally use soap with animal fats (only for family do I make those soaps, but I do test them occasionally). I keep my superfat low. Lye concentration doesn't seem to play a part in mildness or anything other than how fast I can unmold and cut my soap and how fast it loses water.

Thanka earlene... Ill try the egg soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

Thanks deeanna.. What do i replace coconut oil with.. In order to get lather? Will adding sugar do a trick.
I also have extremely hard water n i shower in hot water..
Can these factors also play a part to the dryness.
I guess i need to spend some time reading on fatty acids profile..
Is there a link i can follow?

You can have soap that lathers nicely without coconut oil. The lather will be more creamy rather than fluffy, but you'll still have lather. Sugar or beer are helpful. Using about 5% KOH (potassium hydroxide) and 95% NaOH will make the soap more soluble in water and sudsy. Keeping the superfat as low as practical will improve lather. A chelator (see below) will also help.

If you have dry skin, showering in hot water will make matters worse. My skin is dry in winter, but I love a hot shower when I'm chilly. But I know I'll pay the price in itchy, dry skin if I don't use lotion after my shower.

Hard water absolutely will make your skin feel worse. Soap + hard water minerals => insoluble, sticky soap scum. This scum sticks to your skin and can make the skin sticky, itchy, tight, and dry feeling.

The best solution is to soften the water. A chelator added to your soap is also very helpful. A chelator reacts with hard water minerals before the soap can, so less scum is created to bother your skin. And less soap scum means more lather.

Tetrasodium EDTA or sodium citrate are the two most common chelators used by small scale soap makers.

Click the "soapy tutorials and articles" link at the bottom of my message for more info on how to use EDTA and citrate. I also have an article there about the Soapcalc numbers and fatty acids. I'm sure there are good articles written by others -- maybe people will share their favorites.

 

[neonstudy]

I agree that you should try lard. You can buy it at almost any grocery store. The most moisturizing soaps for me have no coconut oil, 50% lard, high superfat and have milk.