Some musings that have led to questions

[Dreamer]

I have a few questions that I would appreciate hearing people's ideas on:

- If I wanted to lower the pH of a finished soap, I was thinking I could make it HP and bring it to the end stage (no zap) and at that point add vinegar or lemon juice to lower the pH. Being that the lye would have finished reacting with the oils already, I am thinking that should work. Your thoughts?

- The other question is regarding curing. I am finding that when the relative humidity is quite high on any given day, some of my soaps, the salt bars especially, begin to sweat and cause the salt bars to actually drip a little. I don't use air conditioning and am not willing to use a dehumidifier, so I was thinking of putting the soaps that are curing into the refrigerator on humid days. Do you think that would affect the curing process if I did?

- Also, I am finding that most of the soaps I make have a leftover kind of oily feel when I test them. It is a similar feel to when one just finishes a batch of cold process and cleans up afterwards without waiting the 24 hours to allow saponification of the batch leftovers, except not nearly as bad, thankfully. Still, it is a rather unpleasant oily feel. I tend to use a 7 or 8% superfat which I will change now being that I am thinking it is all the unsaponified oils that are giving that feel, and will now bring the SF% down to 6%.
An example of a recipe with which I get that feeling:
- olive oil 73%
- coconut oil 25%
- mango butter 2%

7% superfatted made HP. I also used yogurt as part of the water to try the idea I read about that yogurt makes the HP soap stay more fluid.
Hmmm, now that I see how much OO I used, could that also be adding to the oily feel? The soap as I mentioned was made HP and has been curing for about 5 or 5 weeks already. It's actually really nice feeling once the oily stuff works itself out or in, whatever the case may be.
Thoughts?

 

[Seawolfe]

re pH - once you lower the pH of real soap past a certain point, it stops being soap and separates out. Your idea has been tried and nope, doesn't work. The only successful pH lowering I have seen involved synthetic detergents in the recipe. Stop worrying about pH - it was a marketing ploy to sell detergents.

Salt soap WILL do that in a humid climate. It will also stop eventually. You can put them in the fridge after they've hardened if you like.

Lots of people use less than 5% superfat - Carolyn does 2 or 3% and her soaps are excellent. A well balanced bar doesnt need much. On your recipe that coconut oil would be too stripping for me and I would need like a 6% superfat.

 

[cmzaha]

You cannot lower the ph of soap with additives. There are many many threads here about . As it cures it will become a tad milder. The oily feel is your high superfat, which is why I very seldom superfat over 3%, most of my recipes are superfatted at 2%, so lower your superfat and no more washing with oil

 

[Dreamer]

Thank you, Seawolfe, and thank you Carolyn, for your replies. Good to know about not being able to lower the pH of the final soap in an effective way. I'll let that idea go now. I was only asking because I am still trying to make a dog shampoo and read that dogs' skin has a lower pH than people's and also that dogs have a harder time recovering from being soaped. So I was thinking to lower the pH. Still, at least a homemade soap will be oodles better than a commercial shampoo for the dog, at least in my thinking.

Regarding the superfat%, em, lower than 5%? Radical! And exciting!! Well, I won't jump right down to 3 or 4%, especially because I still need to get to know the individual qualities of each oil and butter better and what each brings to the soap, but I won't hesitate now to soap at 5 or 6%.

Thank you again!

 

[lionprincess00]

With 25% co, I'd be reluctant for a lower sf than 5%. I use 18 to 20% co BUT use 2% sf.

#1 lye typically isnt 100% pure. #2 i go based on the idea it is my oils and fats that make a good bar of soap.

To up one stripping oil, like pko or co, then up sf to counter act the stripping creates a stripping recipe with leftover oils to hopefully counter act the stripping effect (my opinion only). Does that make any sense? It is my opinion, but I try to go with a balanced gentler bar with lower sf to shine out that recipe on skin. Still trying to do this and make a better bubbly bar with not so much co, after 3 plus yrs, but this is my opinion.

 

[shunt2011]

I agree on lowering the SF a bit. But I would also lower the CO a tad. As for soap on dogs, my vet said never as too high PH and can dry their skin too much. Just like I don't use soap on my hair. Sometimes synthetics are better as they are more gentle on hair

 

[Dreamer]

With 25% co, I'd be reluctant for a lower sf than 5%. I use 18 to 20% co BUT use 2% sf.

#1 lye typically isnt 100% pure. #2 i go based on the idea it is my oils and fats that make a good bar of soap.

To up one stripping oil, like pko or co, then up sf to counter act the stripping creates a stripping recipe with leftover oils to hopefully counter act the stripping effect (my opinion only). Does that make any sense? It is my opinion, but I try to go with a balanced gentler bar with lower sf to shine out that recipe on skin. Still trying to do this and make a better bubbly bar with not so much co, after 3 plus yrs, but this is my opinion.

Thank you, what you wrote makes sense. It is also one of the reasons I tend(ed) to superfat a bit high. It was because I read that CO tends to be drying and I use a high % of CO in just about all of my recipes that I am experimenting with. I am next going to try to keep the CO lower and start adding a bit of sugar to help with the bubbles. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Dreamer]

I agree on lowering the SF a bit. But I would also lower the CO a tad. As for soap on dogs, my vet said never as too high PH and can dry their skin too much. Just like I don't use soap on my hair. Sometimes synthetics are better as they are more gentle on hair

I meant a good shampoo bar for dogs, not soap, although I do interchange shampoo and soap on myself quite a bit with my own made ones with no issues, really, except the occasional one bar that is just too oily.
As far as a synthetic shampoo being better than a homemade shampoo bar for dogs, I would tend to disagree. The ingredients list on those commercial products sound like a toxic waste list.

 

[Saranac]

Keep in mind that yogurt is acidic, which means it will consume some of your lye (and as a result, increase your SF). And unless you're using fat-free, it's going to add even more fat.

As far as SF and coconut levels go, my basic recipe is 20% coconut and I SF at 4%. I also test the purity of my lye so my 4% is actually (closer to) 4%.

I rarely go higher than 20% coconut anymore--unless I've included a known lather-killer to my recipe--but when I do, I increase the SF to compensate.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Does it just sound like a toxic waste list, or are those things in commercial per soaps actually bad for our pets?

Lots of ingredients can sound terrible but be totally safe. Others can be terrible in larger quantities but totally safe at a lower amount. That also applies to "chemical free" things, like eos.

 

[Dreamer]

Keep in mind that yogurt is acidic, which means it will consume some of your lye (and as a result, increase your SF). And unless you're using fat-free, it's going to add even more fat.

As far as SF and coconut levels go, my basic recipe is 20% coconut and I SF at 4%. I also test the purity of my lye so my 4% is actually (closer to) 4%.

I rarely go higher than 20% coconut anymore--unless I've included a known lather-killer to my recipe--but when I do, I increase the SF to compensate.

That is something I did not think of regarding the yogurt acidity taking up lye and the fat adding oiliness. Of course! Makes so much sense. Every ingredient is having an effect on the whole. Thank you!

 

[madison]

Keep in mind that yogurt is acidic, which means it will consume some of your lye (and as a result, increase your SF). And unless you're using fat-free, it's going to add even more fat.

As far as SF and coconut levels go, my basic recipe is 20% coconut and I SF at 4%. I also test the purity of my lye so my 4% is actually (closer to) 4%.

I rarely go higher than 20% coconut anymore--unless I've included a known lather-killer to my recipe--but when I do, I increase the SF to compensate.

Sorry to hijack the thread but what is your way of using yogurt in soap batter?

 

[Arimara]

I meant a good shampoo bar for dogs, not soap, although I do interchange shampoo and soap on myself quite a bit with my own made ones with no issues, really, except the occasional one bar that is just too oily.
As far as a synthetic shampoo being better than a homemade shampoo bar for dogs, I would tend to disagree. The ingredients list on those commercial products sound like a toxic waste list.

You may benefit from reading swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com and learning a little bit more about those chemicals you're leery about. A lot of companies like to use terms like "chemical-free", "all natural" and sometimes organic when they try to sell you products.

Many of the synthetic chemicals in many products have proven to be far more beneficial to me and mine than most products made with a "natural" ingredients. I have skin sensitivities and my daughter has even worse ones. we both have intolerances to many natural products that people take at face value as safe. There's a false assumption that "natural" means safe but there are many natural EOs and substances out there that can kill you dead in within hours if you don't consider or even know how much more potent some natural ingredients are.

 

[Dreamer]

Sorry to hijack the thread but what is your way of using yogurt in soap batter?

Hi - here is an example of a HP recipe using yogurt:
http://www.lovinsoap.com/2016/11/fluid-hot-process-soap-tutorial-recipe-fluid-hp/

 

[Dreamer]

You may benefit from reading swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com and learning a little bit more about those chemicals you're leery about. A lot of companies like to use terms like "chemical-free", "all natural" and sometimes organic when they try to sell you products.

Many of the synthetic chemicals in many products have proven to be far more beneficial to me and mine than most products made with a "natural" ingredients. I have skin sensitivities and my daughter has even worse ones. we both have intolerances to many natural products that people take at face value as safe. There's a false assumption that "natural" means safe but there are many natural EOs and substances out there that can kill you dead in within hours if you don't consider or even know how much more potent some natural ingredients are.

Thank you, but I am far more educated than the average person regarding the world of chemicals, both naturally occurring as well as synthetically manufactured, and am also well aware of claims of many companies, both in regard to touting things about natural, as well as deeming synthetic chemicals "safe", due to the nature of my career of the past 27 years. That not all things natural are safe is rather obvious, nor did I ever make such a statement.
I appreciate your input, however, and wish you and your daughter relief from the skin sensitivities that afflict you.

 

[Saranac]

Sorry to hijack the thread but what is your way of using yogurt in soap batter?

I've never used yogurt in soap (I'm not really all that crazy about any milk in soap). If I were to use it, I'd probably make a 50% lye solution and either add the cold yogurt to the cooled solution, or mix the yogurt into my oils before adding the lye.

 

[shunt2011]

I meant a good shampoo bar for dogs, not soap, although I do interchange shampoo and soap on myself quite a bit with my own made ones with no issues, really, except the occasional one bar that is just too oily.
As far as a synthetic shampoo being better than a homemade shampoo bar for dogs, I would tend to disagree. The ingredients list on those commercial products sound like a toxic waste list.

If it's not soap what are you making it with? It's either soap or a syndet unless there's something else I'm not aware of. Could be interested.

 

[SaltedFig]

Humidity in a fridge environment can be quite high (or not) depending on the type (and age) of the fridge you have. So for your sweaty days, a fridge might work well to store your sweating soaps if it has a dehumidifying part to its process, and might just add more moisture, if your fridge has a cooling system only (especially if you've got a lot of lovely fresh food in there).

 

[Arimara]

No offense was meant. As for dogs, I'm absolutely against soap being used for them at all. Their skin is more sensitive than that of a baby, if not equally and I would never use soap on a baby. Some commercial products are actually fantastic for dogs and are products I could safely use based on the ingredients (Cloud Star Buddy Wash for example) but I do agree, some are outright toxic.