Soft soap.

[Tracy von Elling]

Hi all,

I have a question regarding some soap I made that is still soft after a few days. The last 3 batches have been soft. I used a new slab mould this time. I haven't had this until I started using more than 30% olive oil
My recipe generally lately has been (so I can have time to do swirls etc.)
Around: 20% coconut, 40% olive oil,
10% castor (used this in recipes many times at this percentage), 10% shea butter and 20% lard.
I'm using water as % of oils at 25/30 at times. Adding one teaso6of salt ppo to my lye water and 1 teaspoon sugar. I'm soaping at around 38 degrees farenheit.
I'm confused because I make a ice batch of soap with less softer oils but then it traces so fast even if I only blend to emulsion. Can someone help? What am I doing wrong? If I do more of a water discount this may help but then I won't have more time before it traces thicker. Not sure?

Thanks for any feedback.

Tracy

 

[KiwiMoose]

I'll have a go at this, but there are far more experienced soapers on here than me who I am sure will have lots to contribute.
Firstly - are you talking water as a percent of oils, or percentage of lye concentration? Most have advised NOT to use the water as a percent of oils in the calculators. If you mean 28 - 30% of lye concentration, then that is what I use all the time in my recipes and they do tend to lean on the softer side when unmolding. You might want to consider increasing this to 33%.
Do you mean 138 fahrenheit? 38 is near freezing innit? Or maybe you mean 38 degrees celsius, which is about what I soap at - if so then you might want to try around 30 or so to increase working time. If you mean 138 fahrenheit then try decreasing this to about 90.
Is your OO pomace? That traces fast.
Reduce your Castor to 5% - that also traces fast. I used it once at 20% when I was a VERY newbie, and it took until 6 months later to harden up.
40% olive oil is a lot and will take a while to harden up. But once cured for 6 months or more it will ultimately become a hard soap.
Are you using FOs that might accelerate trace? Florals and spices are often very naughty. Citrus will slow trace.
Lastly, make extra sure you are only just blending until the oil slick is no longer visible - once you reach even very light trace it's on its way to the next stage and there's no stopping it.
If it's any consolation I had a lot of trouble with many of these things you mention when starting out, but after a few batches you do find your groove, and it will no longer be a problem after that.
Soap on!

 

[shunt2011]

I'm going to guess it's the high olive and the 10% Castor keeping it soft.

Did you get it to gel? Not gelling will keep soap softer much longer in most cases.

I would tweak your recipe a bit, I would up your lard, drop the olive to 25-30 and take the castor to 5% add the other 5 to the lard as well. Using a 33% lye concentration or a big lower should give you plenty of time to work with it. You can also add 1tsp salt PPO to your water and dissolve it before adding your lye. This will make the soap harder upon taking out of the mold.

Otherwise, just letting it sit until hard enough to get out.

 

[Dawni]

Nice go @KiwiMoose!

You can also add 1tsp PPO to your water and dissolve it before adding your lye. This will make the soap harder upon taking out of the mold.

Otherwise, just letting it sit until hard enough to get out.

Shunt probably meant 1tsp SALT per pound of oil, and I agree.

If you like your recipe I'd say leave it. Just takes more patience lol

 

[amd]

I use 10% sweet almond oil to get a slower trace, but I need to let it sit an extra 12-18 hours for unmolding and cutting, but it sets up to a nice hard bar during cure. (For comparison, I cut at 18 hours with my regular recipe.)

The bars you said you've made are soft - is that after cure or just after cutting? How long are they cured?

 

[earlene]

I'm confused because I make a ice batch of soap with less softer oils but then it traces so fast even if I only blend to emulsion. Can someone help? What am I doing wrong? If I do more of a water discount this may help but then I won't have more time before it traces thicker. Not sure?

Thanks for any feedback.

Tracy

Have you tried only hand whisking and not using a SB at all? I find that some recipes don't need a stick blender to reach emulsion and by not using it, I have more time for swirls. Of course it depends on not only your recipe, but heat and any additives, including colorants, but particularly fragrances.

 

[Tracy von Elling]

I'll have a go at this, but there are far more experienced soapers on here than me who I am sure will have lots to contribute.
Firstly - are you talking water as a percent of oils, or percentage of lye concentration? Most have advised NOT to use the water as a percent of oils in the calculators. If you mean 28 - 30% of lye concentration, then that is what I use all the time in my recipes and they do tend to lean on the softer side when unmolding. You might want to consider increasing this to 33%.
Do you mean 138 fahrenheit? 38 is near freezing innit? Or maybe you mean 38 degrees celsius, which is about what I soap at - if so then you might want to try around 30 or so to increase working time. If you mean 138 fahrenheit then try decreasing this to about 90.
Is your OO pomace? That traces fast.
Reduce your Castor to 5% - that also traces fast. I used it once at 20% when I was a VERY newbie, and it took until 6 months later to harden up.
40% olive oil is a lot and will take a while to harden up. But once cured for 6 months or more it will ultimately become a hard soap.
Are you using FOs that might accelerate trace? Florals and spices are often very naughty. Citrus will slow trace.
Lastly, make extra sure you are only just blending until the oil slick is no longer visible - once you reach even very light trace it's on its way to the next stage and there's no stopping it.
If it's any consolation I had a lot of trouble with many of these things you mention when starting out, but after a few batches you do find your groove, and it will no longer be a problem after that.
Soap on!

Thanks for the reply. I meant Celsius but I will try a little cooler. I don't think it's olive oil pomace as it just says light olive oil. maybe it even is. I will try reducing the castor to 5%. And less blending for sure. I used peppermint essential oil for this batch. I'm wondering if that would make it soft.
Thanks for the encouragement and help! I will try some of this!

Have you tried only hand whisking and not using a SB at all? I find that some recipes don't need a stick blender to reach emulsion and by not using it, I have more time for swirls. Of course it depends on not only your recipe, but heat and any additives, including colorants, but particularly fragrances.

I will make more and try using just hand blending. I used essential oil for this and neon mica colours along with charcoal. Maybe it was the charcoal. Always hard to tell. Thanks for the help. When I try again I will stick blend for maybe a few seconds and then hand blend!

 

[earlene]

Some micas do thicken the batter more than others. I find that Titanium Dioxide is an ingredient in some other micas, and those ones seem to me to thicken the batter more than the ones without TD. TD on its own really thickens my batter up a lot. I have read that AC does it too, but I don't use activated charcoal very often so I can't say how much before it does, though. Some greens I have used thickened the batter up a lot, but I think that's because of the TD in the mix to get the color. And probably if AC is in the mix it would as well. Of course, it depends on how much of the micas you are using. When I like really intense color, I tend to use a lot of mica.

 

[Dawni]

In my case, I've noticed activated charcoal does indeed speed up trace, as well as titanium dioxide.

I HP mostly, and adding TD does not help with fluidity, so I'm guessing (no scientific basis whatsoever) that that is the effect on HP, like speeding up trace in CP..

 

[Tracy von Elling]

I use 10% sweet almond oil to get a slower trace, but I need to let it sit an extra 12-18 hours for unmolding and cutting, but it sets up to a nice hard bar during cure. (For comparison, I cut at 18 hours with my regular recipe.)

The bars you said you've made are soft - is that after cure or just after cutting? How long are they cured?

Some micas do thicken the batter more than others. I find that Titanium Dioxide is an ingredient in some other micas, and those ones seem to me to thicken the batter more than the ones without TD. TD on its own really thickens my batter up a lot. I have read that AC does it too, but I don't use activated charcoal very often so I can't say how much before it does, though. Some greens I have used thickened the batter up a lot, but I think that's because of the TD in the mix to get the color. And probably if AC is in the mix it would as well. Of course, it depends on how much of the micas you are using. When I like really intense color, I tend to use a lot of mica.

So interesting and helpful. I keep changing my recipe to try to get it harder. Then it's too hard and traces to fast so I do a new recipe and make up one that has more soft oils. Then it's too soft. I feel like I have 20 recipes I keep trying but it's confusing. I do use a lot of colour. But many seem to make beautiful soaps with bright colours on the tutorials I see, and there soap doesn't trace too fast to not be able to do swirls. They are soft after cutting and soft when they are used after a month. At least the ones with less saturated fats and ones that trace slower are soft.

In my case, I've noticed activated charcoal does indeed speed up trace, as well as titanium dioxide.

I HP mostly, and adding TD does not help with fluidity, so I'm guessing (no scientific basis whatsoever) that that is the effect on HP, like speeding up trace in CP..

yes, I think the colouring is my problem and stick blending too much. I need a recipe that won't be so soft but that doesn't have too many hard fats. And, less colouring maybe? Thanks!

I'm going to guess it's the high olive and the 10% Castor keeping it soft.

Did you get it to gel? Not gelling will keep soap softer much longer in most cases.

I would tweak your recipe a bit, I would up your lard, drop the olive to 25-30 and take the castor to 5% add the other 5 to the lard as well. Using a 33% lye concentration or a big lower should give you plenty of time to work with it. You can also add 1tsp salt PPO to your water and dissolve it before adding your lye. This will make the soap harder upon taking out of the mold.

Otherwise, just letting it sit until hard enough to get out.

I think it gelled. I wrapped it up and it was on a heating pad for 1 hour. But then again, this is a new slab mould my husband made for me and I've never used a slab mould. Maybe because it's wide it wasn't insulated enough. I have no idea!
Okay so I will do less olive oil and less castor. Also, I need to learn about lye concentration because I only use % of oils. What would lye concentration be that is a good amount? I did use 1 tsp salt in this recipe. Not sure why it didn't work. I also added powdered milk at trace. I forgot about this. Would that make it soft?
Thanks for the help - everyone is so helpful here!

 

[Tracy von Elling]

On thing I want to add that has confused me so much... this recipe I posted at the top of this page is obvioulsy soft as I'm asking about it. But last week I made soap with 10%Canola, 7% castor, 51% olive, 25% coconut oil and 7% soy bean oil. % of oils was 30 %.
It was 31:69 saturated:unsaturated fat and the one that is soft is 39:61. So it's confusing as to how they are similar numbers. The soft one for hardness on soap calc is 37. My hard bar is 30. So the 30 for hardness is harder than the 37. Not sure if I'm making sense but I would love someone to explain. Is soap calc numbers for the hardness of the soap very accurate?

 

[Dawni]

Not necessarily... I myself look more at the longevity than hardness because most properly made soap will harden up over time.

This is a good article on water, by out very own DeeAnna. My general rule, which I learned here, is the more soft oils, especially the high oleic ones, in a recipe, the less water I should use. Especially in my case, it helps a lot in HP against warping and soft soap.

Her whole soap section is a good read actually, but this one might help you regarding any soap calc numbers.

Did you use the same water amount for these two soaps by the way?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

DeeAnna’s articles are super helpful! Based on what she wrote here, I now use 33% lye concentration in most of my recipes. My recipes with PO at 40-50% tend to harden up really quickly as did the ones with high CO, which I mostly don’t make anymore. I can take a high palm recipe out of the 2 lb silicone mold after 18 hrs. When I make recipes with a lot of soft oils they are still softish after 18 hrs and I leave them in the molds for a couple of days. I’ve made some lard recipes and those also seem to harden up a little more slowly. I have never used castor oil at more than 5% and have only been using EOs until very recently, so no opinions on FOs and trace. I have had acceleration when using something unusual, like orange wax, or a lot of clay. I use activated charcoal powder all the time and it has never affected trace for me. I shoot for blending to a stable emulsion, just before trace, if I will be swirling or pouring. I have worked lately at anything from 110F down to below 80F as a soaping batter starting temp.

 

[dibbles]

When you are stickblending to emulsion, are you continually or intermittently blending? Only blending in short bursts and more stirring by hand will get you to emulsion but will give you extra working time. This video by newbie is a very helpful visual:


I think your temps are fine, but you can try soaping a little cooler. Lard traces very slowly, so using the oils from your recipe maybe try 20-25% coconut, 30-45% lard, 5% castor, and the rest in olive oil or a combination of olive/sweet almond. If this works for you, then you can start playing with butters and different percentages of oils.

Are you dispersing your colorants before adding or adding them dry and blending more to mix them in? That could make a difference. I find that it can be more difficult to achieve gel in a slab mold (especially a small one) than a loaf. I also insulate by putting my heating pad on a thick blanket, placing the mold on the heating pad and wrapping it all up. If it isn't warm enough after an hour (the auto shut off on my heating pad), I will turn the heating pad on for another hour. I am in the northern US, so our winter temps are cooler in the house. In the summer, just insulating is enough.

I don't know how adding powdered milk at trace would affect things. Was it reconstituted with more water? That would probably make a difference, and if you used the stick blender again when you added the milk it definitely would.