Sodium gluconate

[reinbeau]

So would you add it to the lye water as I do sodium lactate?

 

[nframe]

So would you add it to the lye water as I do sodium lactate?

I add it to a bit of the water amount, along with other additives like sugar, coconut milk powder, etc.

 

[Cclaudia]

So would you add it to the lye water as I do sodium lactate?

I dissolve sodium gluconate in the water before adding the lye.

 

[nframe]

I dissolve sodium gluconate in the water before adding the lye.

I have never done that. It sounds easier than what I do.

 

[Cclaudia]

I have never done that. It sounds easier than what I do.

Yes it is, I alway use both sodium citrate and sodium gluconate as chelators in my handmade soap (they help prevent DOS and soap scum, I have very hard water) and dissolving them in the water before adding the lye is the easy way to do it

 

[elurah]

I am so excited about all this sodium gluconate hype! Once I can figure out a setup at home, I want to test of the effectiveness of SG compared to EDTA for preventing DOS.

For those using SG, can I ask which supplier you choose? So far I have ordered samples from Making Cosmetics. I saw someone mention Jungbunzlauer but I can't figure out how to order from them.

Thanks for the info!

 

[nframe]

I am so excited about all this sodium gluconate hype! Once I can figure out a setup at home, I want to test of the effectiveness of SG compared to EDTA for preventing DOS.

For those using SG, can I ask which supplier you choose? So far I have ordered samples from Making Cosmetics. I saw someone mention Jungbunzlauer but I can't figure out how to order from them.

Thanks for the info!

I live in the UK so it is a UK supplier. I can look them up if you are interested.

 

[Cclaudia]

I am so excited about all this sodium gluconate hype! Once I can figure out a setup at home, I want to test of the effectiveness of SG compared to EDTA for preventing DOS.

For those using SG, can I ask which supplier you choose? So far I have ordered samples from Making Cosmetics. I saw someone mention Jungbunzlauer but I can't figure out how to order from them.

Thanks for the info!

I'm in Arizona and here is where I buy sodium gluconate : https://www.saveoncitric.com/nsearc...hsubmit=Search&vwcatalog=yhst-128631805714435

 

[elurah]

Thanks nframe and cclaudia for the info! Love Save on Citric's tag line "supplies for do-it-yourself chemists" LOL that sounds ill-advised.

 

[Cclaudia]

Thanks nframe and cclaudia for the info! Love Save on Citric's tag line "supplies for do-it-yourself chemists" LOL that sounds ill-advised.

but we are, making soap make us chemists...a little bit

 

[penelopejane]

deleted

 

[Sacto]

I am thinking it must be the combination of SG and vinegar or SG, vinegar and Coconut oil. Or it might just be poor mixing on my behalf twice in a row?

Do you add the SG to the vinegar/NaOH solution? Or do you add the SG to the vinegar and then add the NaOH? The vinegar may have its own reaction with the SG which may change the chemistry a bit. ... Just a guess.

 

[penelopejane]

Do you add the SG to the vinegar/NaOH solution? Or do you add the SG to the vinegar and then add the NaOH? The vinegar may have its own reaction with the SG which may change the chemistry a bit. ... Just a guess.

I deleted my post because I just made another mini batch and it worked (SG+Vinegar+CO) and not grainy.

I usually add NaOH to water. SG to separate water then add to oils. And add vinegar to oils separately as well.
A bit of a micro manager, I am afraid, but I am conscious of weird reactions.

I did have the NaOH a bit hotter than I usually do in one of the ones that failed although the combined heat was about 42*C.
The last test I did (just 1/2 hour ago) I waited for the NaOH to come down in temp a bit more but warmed the oils so the combined heat was 42*. Maybe the SG or vinegar didn't like the heat?

Soap gremlins?????

 

[penelopejane]

Have made a few more SG soaps. After much research I realise my last few batches riced.

The recipe is well tried with CO and Shea butter.
The additives are sodium gluconate (0.5%), vinegar (20%), AC and tested FO. Lye concentration 30%.
Both times the soap turned grainy in the pot (riced). The first time I also used coconut milk. But the second one without coconut milk is the same. I soaped at 120* (44*C) when they were all mixed together.

These combinations work fine:
SG without coconut or vinegar.
SG and Coconut oil.
Vinegar and coconut without SG.

I am thinking it must be the combination of SG and vinegar or SG, vinegar and Coconut oil.
I made a small test batch with SG+vinegar+CO poured into the oil separately and it worked fine.
Then made a bigger batch and it riced again - but it was a 5 step pour so takes time and although it accelerated a bit after I SB'd it barely to emulsion it wasn't till the end of the pour that it started to rice. AC tends to accelerate a bit for me. The temp was 44*C when it was finally in the mold but the top is grainy.

Do you think:
a) the batter cooled too quickly
b) vinegar should be added to NaOH not the oils?
c) the SG is reacting weirdly with the vinegar - should it be added to the NaOH too?
d) the SG is reacting to the vinegar - both shouldn't be used together?
e) I should give up soaping entirely.

All help gratefully received.

 

[Sacto]

Have made a few more SG soaps. After much research I realise my last few batches riced.

The recipe is well tried with CO and Shea butter.
The additives are sodium gluconate (0.5%), vinegar (20%), AC and tested FO. Lye concentration 30%.
Both times the soap turned grainy in the pot (riced). The first time I also used coconut milk. But the second one without coconut milk is the same. I soaped at 120* (44*C) when they were all mixed together.

These combinations work fine:
SG without coconut or vinegar.
SG and Coconut oil.
Vinegar and coconut without SG.

I am thinking it must be the combination of SG and vinegar or SG, vinegar and Coconut oil.
I made a small test batch with SG+vinegar+CO poured into the oil separately and it worked fine.
Then made a bigger batch and it riced again - but it was a 5 step pour so takes time and although it accelerated a bit after I SB'd it barely to emulsion it wasn't till the end of the pour that it started to rice. AC tends to accelerate a bit for me. The temp was 44*C when it was finally in the mold but the top is grainy.

Do you think:
a) the batter cooled too quickly
b) vinegar should be added to NaOH not the oils?
c) the SG is reacting weirdly with the vinegar - should it be added to the NaOH too?
d) the SG is reacting to the vinegar - both shouldn't be used together?
e) I should give up soaping entirely.

All help gratefully received.

"B"

You have two specific chemical reactions happening at once in your batter. The Lye and oil & lye and vinegar. I do not believe the Sodium Gluconate, or the activated charcoal are directly involved in the reaction. But they can influence the reactions. I would suggest completing each reaction separately; react the lye water with the vinegar, then react it with the oils. Remember too that larger batches do behave differently than smaller ones. It depends on how efficiently the oils and lye water are mixed; it is easier to thoroughly mix a smaller batch than a larger one.

 

[penelopejane]

I made another batch and dissolved the lye in water and when it had cooled to about 40*C I added the vinegar. I dissolved the SG in water and added it to all the oils and FO. I did a 1 kg batch this time - smaller than before but bigger than the test batch that worked.

At 130*F it it started to go grainy (mild ricing???) before I had mixed it at all. I SB’d it and it took ages (about 5 mins of intermittent SB - much longer than this recipe usually takes) to come to even a light trace. It stayed in suspension, lost it’s grainyness and it looked fine as when I poured it into the mold at 110*F.
I used the coconut milk again.

So thanks, the idea of putting the vinegar with the lye is a good one. I’m thinking of adding the SG to the water before the lye next time.

But what is causing this usually good recipe to tend to rice?
Is ricing caused by too much heat or too little heat?

 

[BrewerGeorge]

It's possible that the gluconate is a better nucleation site for soap crystals? How does the size of the gluconate compare with the citrate?

 

[penelopejane]

It's possible that the gluconate is a better nucleation site for soap crystals? How does the size of the gluconate compare with the citrate?

The crystals are the same size.
What does this mean in layman’s terms?

 

[ghoshsmita]

Well, I made another batch and did not cook it this time! The sodium gluconate seems to work as well as EDTA. I can't say which one is better. I suppose I'll buy whichever one is the cheapest in future.

Hi! Been searching all over for some info on Sodium Glauconate. Could you please help me. I have ended up buying 5khs of Sodium Glauconate as it wasn't available in smaller quantities. I have we have really really hard water and too much soap scum. I know how much to add, but do you add it at trace is what I would like to know. Also if it is good for reducing soap scum. I have not got full answers any any of the soap forums I have asked this. Please help! TIA

 

[nframe]

Hi! Been searching all over for some info on Sodium Glauconate. Could you please help me. I have ended up buying 5khs of Sodium Glauconate as it wasn't available in smaller quantities. I have we have really really hard water and too much soap scum. I know how much to add, but do you add it at trace is what I would like to know. Also if it is good for reducing soap scum. I have not got full answers any any of the soap forums I have asked this. Please help! TIA

I don't add it at trace. I put some of the water aside and add it to that, as well as sugar. I then mix that water with the oils, before adding the lye solution. Incidentally, I now use citric acid to reduce the scum as it is much cheaper. I do the same with citric acid - add it to a bit of the water with sugar. The thing with citric acid is that you need to add more NaOH.