Soaping Temperatures?

[Carly B]

I made my third loaf of soap today. While I was temping the lye water, I started overthinking things (I do that sometimes) and I had a lot of questions. I've read you should keep the lye solution and the oils within 10 degrees of each other, which makes sense. But what I want to know is:

What is the lowest temp you can soap and what is the highest temp. What's the difference between soaping at
70 or soaping at 110?

As a soaper, do you try and always soap at the same temp? If so, how did you decide that was the best temp for
you?

Is soaping temp a personal preference, or is one temp better than another? Does it depend on the oils?

Whew! Thanks for any answers!

 

[Relle]

You don't have to worry about temperature. I make up my lye and let it cool, it can be made up prior to making your soap, the day before, or the week before it doesn't matter. When your ready to make your soap, just melt your hard oils (no need to check the temp) and add them to your liquid oils, you then add your lye, mix to trace and put in mould. Easy peasey. Forget the thermometer, forget the temp. Your over thinking the process too much.

 

[Dawni]

I had bookmarked this post on temperatures when I was very new.. After it I don't bother so much with temps, more so since I HP.

In CP I think it's best to have a general idea of what causes overheating.. Like for example, a very high coconut oil soap, or knowing that a loaf mold will generate more heat than individual cavity molds.. and what shouldn't be too cool.... Like say, to avoid stearic spots.

There's a lot to read on temperatures if you do a search..

 

[Carly B]

When your ready to make your soap, just melt your hard oils (no need to check the temp) and add them to your liquid oils, you then add your lye, mix to trace and put in mould. Easy peasey. Forget the thermometer, forget the temp. Your over thinking the process too much.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! To confirm, I don't need to have the lye water and oils within 10 degrees of each other?

 

[shunt2011]

No, they don’t need to be within a certain temperature of each other. Many masterbatch their lye. It’s made days or weeks in advance. Just as Relle stated, I melt my hard oils/butters then add my liquid oils and fragrance and any additives. I stick blend well then add my lye mixture.

 

[Arimara]

I'd say it matters more when you use certain milks instead of milk powders and want to keep your soap from discoloring from burnt sugars. That is when you may want to keep an eye out for things. I also use a thermometer so I can absolutely know for sure that my lye is dissolved when using a dark colored liquid.

 

[IrishLass]

I'm the odd lass out in that I do keep track of temps.......at least when I'm making batches with a certain % of high stearic fats and butters (I'm looking at you hydrogenated PKO flakes, kokum butter, cocoa butter and illipe butter). I found through trial and error that when I don't keep the temp of my batter at least 110F and above with such formulas, like clockwork I get pseudo-trace (not true trace, but premature thickening of the batter due to certain fatty acids re-solidifying because the temps are too cool for them to stay in melted suspension long enough for the heat of the lye reaction to kick in) and unsightly stearic spots in my soap. If my temps stay 110F or above, I don't get pseudo-trace or any stearic spots.

I masterbatch my lye, which means my lye solution is always at room temp. What I've always done is bring the temp of my portioned-out master-batched lye solution up to about 100F or thereabout (warm to the touch) via a hot water bath in my sink while my fats heat on the stove, and then commence soaping when the melted fats reached 120F. This has always worked out great for me to keep my batter from dropping below 110F and keeping pseudo-trace unsightly stearic spots at bay, but forum member DeeAnna showed me an easier way.....instead of warming up the lye solution, just leave it at room temp and only heat the oils/fats, but to a warmer temp than I normally heat them. Doh! I don't know how that didn't enter my mind in the first place, but it's always the simple things that often get overlooked, it seems.

I haven't soaped in awhile due to my ample overstock that we're still using up, but when I resume, I will be doing as DeeAnna suggested. I'm thinking that heating my fats to 130F ought to do it. The higher soaping temps also help out because I use a water discount and like to fully gel my soaps (the less water you use, the harder it is to fully gel..... unless you soap at a warmer temp).

I also keep track of temps when making soap with beeswax....things come out great when my soaping temp is at least 120F with the beeswax.


IrishLass

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I’ll be the second odd one out. For context, I’m a newbie, with less than 6 months of soap making experience, but I also like to experiment and have made about 40 batches of soap to date from over 20 different recipes.

The only real problem I had when I started making soap was with keeping the batter warm enough! I often make small batches of soap and, as a newbie, I was trying to make complicated designs that required splitting the batter into even smaller portions. In addition, I also started using individual cavity molds that hold only 3 or 4 ounces of batter in each cavity. All of those things contribute to the batter cooling down quickly, which is exacerbated by starting at room temperature. I had some failed soap early on and, in retrospect, I’m certain “cold” batter/false trace was the problem. I had read about false trace, but didn’t recognize it when it happened. If I had the chance to teach my newbie self, I would suggest aiming to start with the batter at 110-115F and working with small batches (1-2 lbs of oils) and a single “beginner “ type recipe. Recognizing various trace levels and true trace vs. false trace is super important. Once trace is mastered for a user friendly recipe, it’s easier to understand how lower/higher temperatures, recipes or acceleration affect the soap making process and the finished soap.

I have some recipes now that work just fine if I start with the oils at 85 or 90F and the lye at 75-80F (high soft oils, or high lard recipes) and others where my melted butters and oils need to be at 120F when I start in order to get good results (recipes with more than 20-30% butters). I have an infrared thermometer and use it all the time. I think I get more consistent outcomes as a result.

I’ll be the second odd one out. For context, I’m a newbie, with less than 6 months of soap making experience, but I also like to experiment and have made about 40 batches of soap to date from over 20 different recipes.

The only real problem I had when I started making soap was with keeping the batter warm enough! I often make small batches of soap and, as a newbie, I was trying to make complicated designs that required splitting the batter into even smaller portions. In addition, I also started using individual cavity molds that hold only 3 or 4 ounces of batter in each cavity. All of those things contribute to the batter cooling down quickly, which is exacerbated by starting at room temperature. I had some failed soap early on and, in retrospect, I’m certain “cold” batter/false trace was the problem. I had read about false trace, but didn’t recognize it when it happened. If I had the chance to teach my newbie self, I would suggest aiming to start with the batter at 110-115F and working with small batches (1-2 lbs of oils) and a single “beginner “ type recipe. Recognizing various trace levels and true trace vs. false trace is super important. Once trace is mastered for a user friendly recipe, it’s easier to understand how lower/higher temperatures, recipes or acceleration affect the soap making process and the finished soap.

I have some recipes now that work just fine if I start with the oils at 85 or 90F and the lye at 75-80F (high soft oils, or high lard recipes) and others where my melted butters and oils need to be at 120F when I start in order to get good results (recipes with more than 20-30% butters). I have an infrared thermometer and use it all the time. I think I get more consistent outcomes as a result.

There are two threads on the same topic right now. The other thread is:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/what-is-considered-room-temp.76409/

In the other thread, @DeeAnna added links to very useful recent threads on the topic that I hadn’t found before.

Here’s a worse case scenario as an example - For these soaps that were poured into individual cavity molds, I thought that pouring at a pre trace, but stable emulsion, would help me get very smooth tops. I ended up with soap that looked layered, with ashy grainy tops and, for some of the bars, a middle layer that looked a bit like “alien brains”. I never saw a full separation of the oils and lye water. The combination of low temperature batter and a weak emulsion were probably to blame. I can now produce perfect individual bars by bringing the batter to a light trace before I pour and then popping the molds into a warmed oven (140F, but turned off before the soap goes in).

ETA: I also make individual goat milk bars that I put into the refrigerator immediately after I pour So they don’t gel. I don’t have any problems with those going wonky. They seem to want to heat up a bit on their own, perhaps due to the goat milk, and I always bring the batter to a light trace before I pour.

I also want to add that my suggestion, above, to work at 110-115F assumes that the “beginner friendly” recipe does not have a tendency to overheat.

 

[TAS]

I'm the odd lass out in that I do keep track of temps.......at least when I'm making batches with a certain % of high stearic fats and butters (I'm looking at you hydrogenated PKO flakes, kokum butter, cocoa butter and illipe butter).

IrishLass, agree with your assessment, and I'd like to add tallow to your list of oils. I learned all about false trace with my second tallow batch. A sweet temp spot for me is between 111° - 115°. Any lower and I stress out about false trace. Any higher and it moves a little too fast for me.

 

[lucycat]

I think temps are important, especially if you are new. They help in consistency and letting you gain practice at what is trace and how fragrances affect the soap. After 15 years I am not as careful but still check temps on florals and spice scents. I soap with about 60% hard oils (palm, coconut, butters) and I like to use a temp of around 100 (both oils lye/water) but do use less in my goatmilk soaps. When you have made soap for a few months you can adjust or try a different temp. Working with set temps becomes one less variable. When you are working with fragrance, color, design it is nice to have one item where you know what to expect when you are making soap.

 

[TAS]

I think temps are important, especially if you are new. They help in consistency and letting you gain practice at what is trace and how fragrances affect the soap. After 15 years I am not as careful but still check temps on florals and spice scents. I soap with about 60% hard oils (palm, coconut, butters) and I like to use a temp of around 100 (both oils lye/water) but do use less in my goatmilk soaps. When you have made soap for a few months you can adjust or try a different temp. Working with set temps becomes one less variable. When you are working with fragrance, color, design it is nice to have one item where you know what to expect when you are making soap.

Agree.

 

[IrishLass]

The only real problem I had when I started making soap was with keeping the batter warm enough! I often make small batches of soap and, as a newbie, I was trying to make complicated designs that required splitting the batter into even smaller portions. In addition, I also started using individual cavity molds that hold only 3 or 4 ounces of batter in each cavity. All of those things contribute to the batter cooling down quickly, which is exacerbated by starting at room temperature. I had some failed soap early on and, in retrospect, I’m certain “cold” batter/false trace was the problem. I had read about false trace, but didn’t recognize it when it happened. If I had the chance to teach my newbie self, I would suggest aiming to start with the batter at 110-115F and working with small batches (1-2 lbs of oils) and a single “beginner “ type recipe. Recognizing various trace levels and true trace vs. false trace is super important. Once trace is mastered for a user friendly recipe, it’s easier to understand how lower/higher temperatures, recipes or acceleration affect the soap making process and the finished soap.

You bring up a very good point about the size of batches. For what it's worth, my normal/regular batch sizes range from a small 1.3 lbs up to 2.8 lbs. Sometimes I make a larger batch, but it's very rare that I do more than a 2.8 lb batch.


IrishLass

 

[cmzaha]

I tend to keep a record of temps for some of my fragrances. I have one that will seize up if the temperature varies 5 degrees. I soap with palm, butters, lard, and tallow so all my recipes tend to move quite fast. My tallow/lard recipe is my slowest. I do tend to get a false trace when I first pour in my lye water because many times my oils are still a titch cloudy, but I just stir through the false trace until it thins out.

 

[srenee]

I always soap room temperature. Most of my eo do very well at that temp.