Soap Won't Exit Gel Phase

[brbubba]

Just made up a batch 48 hours ago of Corn Oil (42%), Sunflower Oil (42%) and Olive Oil (16%). Double checked all my weights and measurements, etc. Mixed until trace formed, then added 2 teaspoons each of matcha and cocoa powder and mixed it in fully. Set in the mold, started to harden and looked absolutely great, almost like a coffee color, was even starting to harden. Checked 24 hours later and it was fully in Gel phase with a slight skin on the surface, thought this was extremely weird as my past attempts were fully hardened and ready for cutting. Threw it in the oven at 170 for 30 minutes just in case something was amiss, possibly a mistake, but whatever. 24 hours later and it is the same except the skin is a little harder this time and the skin is starting to wrinkle. Tested the soap itself, it's fully soap now, no zap, lathers up.

So what gives here? I went back to check my formula page and the hardness is extremely low, well below sopacalc's rec's. It's at a 13 when 29 is the rec. min. I also made sure I indeed was using sodium hydroxide, not potassium hydroxide, thinking they sent me the wrong stuff. At this stage I'm thinking to remelt the batch and add some coconut oil with enough associated lye to harden the whole thing up.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Obsidian]

Is it still warm? If it is, try putting it in the fridge to cool down. If it cool already and that soft then yeah, you might need to rebatch and mix in some coconut.

 

[brbubba]

Is it still warm? If it is, try putting it in the fridge to cool down. If it cool already and that soft then yeah, you might need to rebatch and mix in some coconut.

It was cold. Attached a picture of the original result. Rebatched it with coconut oil and lard and accidentally HPed it so it's hardening up nicely as we speak. Lesson learned though, take the hardness estimates seriously or you will get a gooey mess of soap.

EDIT: Don't know why or how I posted this in recipe feedback. :?

 

[neeners]

is that an aluminum pan? or a pan with aluminum in it? it reacts to lye....

 

[DeeAnna]

If it's below about 160 deg F, give or take a bit, the soap cannot possibly be in gel phase. Gel is a change in physical state due to temperature.

"...Lesson learned though, take the hardness estimates seriously or you will get a gooey mess of soap...."

You used all liquid oils and ended up with a semi translucent, soft soap. Yep, nuff said!

 

[cmzaha]

I would have to wonder how much liquid was used. As single oils all those oils can be used to make soap without producting a mushy soap. I would think something else was going on, such as lye, to much water, re-action with the pan who knows. Sometimes soap just refuses to do what it is supposed to... It is also a bit confusing about adding in coconut oil and oil in a rebatch and it now hardens. Really makes no sense unless additional lye was added in to compensate for the extra oils. I would also wonder how one accidently hp's a batch...Sorry to say, I would have dumped the batch and just started over with a non metal mold, and I do not toss soap very often.

 

[neeners]

^^ I think it has something to do with the metal pan.....

 

[shunt2011]

I think it's a reaction to the metal pan and perhaps overheating. I probably would toss it myself.

 

[dixiedragon]

Yeah, unless that's a stainless steel pan (looks like aluminum to me) I'd pitch it.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

In some ways I like the colour, but the whole thing does look really funky in a bad way

 

[brbubba]

Thanks for all the help guys. The pan is metal coated with a non-stick coating, and it's surprisingly holding up ok. But yes, as I have learned non-stick coatings, even anodized coatings, will eventually fall off if you put lye in them. I'm waiting to find a deal on a silicone mold, but be assured I will eventually get one.

I should have taken pictures of this batch coming out of the mold, but it was a giant gooey mess, almost like a chunky pudding. I heated it up in the pan, did the new batch of just bacon grease and coconut oil with lye and mixed it in while it was still hot. Since it was still hot the new stuff started HPing almost immediately when folded in. I just mixed it all up as well as I could and then poured it back into the mold. When washing the utensils I noticed the residue hardened immediately so I threw the whole batch in the freezer. Pulled it out about 10 hours later and cut it. Thankfully I added enough of the new ingredients to make the old recipe come up to a 27 hardness and that seemed to do the trick.

I think the primary cause was not paying attention to the hardness rating, which I typically do. As a side note are there any oils besides coconut oil and lard that will contribute to the hardness. I have seen all Olive Oil bars sold and without any other oils that's a very soft bar, so there must be some technique or additional ingredient used to get it to be so firm. Thanks again guys!

 

[shunt2011]

I'm a bit confused as you keep referring to it hping. Are you cooking it in a crockpot? That's what HP is. Or are you doing CP and that it's gelling really quickly. I wouldn't use that metal pan. You may be contaminating your soap. You can use a box which would be easier and safer. Just line it with some freezer paper and you are ready to do.

 

[brbubba]

I'm a bit confused as you keep referring to it hping. Are you cooking it in a crockpot? That's what HP is. Or are you doing CP and that it's gelling really quickly. I wouldn't use that metal pan. You may be contaminating your soap. You can use a box which would be easier and safer. Just line it with some freezer paper and you are ready to do.

Ok I'm officially a complete *****. I switched from a stainless steel pot to an anodized pot that was what I would consider "throwaway" a few weeks ago. First batch in this pot came out fine, second batch was strangely soft, thought it just needed to cure. And this batch was so soft as to be mush. Well here I thought it was anodized iron or steel and it was aluminum!!!!!!!!!! So when I rebatched it HPed not because the ingredients were already warm, but because there was an exothermic reaction!!!!! It appears that the anodized coating was preventing the reaction, but as it broke down and exposed the bare aluminum the lye was reacting with the metal more than the soap. No one was harmed in this experiment, so it goes to show don't assume anything!

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

There is always an exothermic reaction - in cold process it is suppressed to a high degree by chilling or helped to some degree by warming or insulating. This is when the soap batter is poured already.

Hot process is where you cook the soap batter before you put it in a mould - using a slow cooker / crock pot usually.

Lye reacts with aluminium to produce hydrogen, a rather flammable gas

 

[AustinStraight]

I like to use stainless steel loaf pans and cut the soap the same way you would cut bread If you don't have any stainless steel pans, you could just use a cardboard box lined with parchment paper. You could also try using Tupperware containers. Little round Tupperware soaps are cute I've even used a teacup to mold soap before.

 

[neeners]

HA! IT WAS THE PAN! stick to wood, cardboard or plastic next time. MUCH safer! glad no one got hurt!

 

[vuladams]

Just read this and my first thought was, "where's the lining in that pan?"... Didn't see it there so that makes sense that the batch didn't work out. Sorry about that mis-hap!

 

[Dennis]

Just read this and my first thought was, "where's the lining in that pan?"... Didn't see it there so that makes sense that the batch didn't work out. Sorry about that mis-hap!

I thought the same. If you want to use that pan for a while just line it with freezer paper and forge ahead.