Soap SUNK in MIDDLE - CP

[chirag_jj]

URGENT!! SOS
I made my very first batch of 100% coconut oil soap (in loaf mould). An hour after putting the batter in the mould, the soap solidified
BUT the middle portion of the top part sunk a bit ...

Is there any solution or a way to prevent this??

COLD PROCESS
100% Coconut Oil
28% of Oil Weight - Distilled Water
20% Superfat
Oil & Lye MIXED at around 50C ~ 120F

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

Welcome @chirag_jj! I visited Rajasthan 7 years ago. Where in India are you located?

I haven’t made 100% coconut oil soap, and I use 33-40% water. I’m afraid I don't recognize the sinking phenomenon in your pictures.

I’m wondering if it overheated, bubbled up or puffed up so the soap was pushed from the middle to the edges of the mold, and as it cooled the center collapsed. Overheating can be caused by having too high a percentage of water in your lye solution for the oils in the recipe. You might try running your recipe through the soap calculator using 2:1 water to lye or 1.5:1 water to lye, then make your coconut soap with the higher lye concentration. See if the problem improves.

Why are you using a 20% super fat level? Do you have an accurate scale that measures down to the 10th of a gram? Are you making a soap for personal use? Or are you making a cleaning soap for laundry?

Even if you have made soap for a long time, you may still find useful information in the Beginner’s Soap Making Forum. As you read through messages you will find other soap makers from India check in from time to time.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I'm thinking the same as @ScentimentallyYours - in that your soap has had a 'reverse volcano' in that the soap has risen along the sides of the loaf, rather than in the middle. This could possibly happen if the sides heated up quicker than the interior, due to external temperature. Just make sure when you cut it that there are no caverns with 'teeth' inside.

@ScentimentallyYours - it is common to use a 20% superfat with a 100% CO soap to mitigate the overly cleansing effect of a high CO percentage.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

it is common to use a 20% superfat with a 100% CO soap to mitigate the overly cleansing effect of a high CO percentage.

I assumed that was the situation, but that’s also why I asked if it was intended as a personal use soap, or as a laundry soap. A School I visited in Jodhpur made soap, but it was intended only for laundry. Some staff were fascinated that I knew how to make personal soap with different fragrances. All they really needed was a good scale and they would be off and running.

@KiwiMoose isn’t there a recipe for soap to be used in marine environments that is a superfatted coconut oil soap? My memory is hazy, but I thought pure coconut was used because of availability plus high lather capacity.

 

[KiwiMoose]

@KiwiMoose isn’t there a recipe for soap to be used in marine environments that is a superfatted coconut oil soap? My memory is hazy, but I thought pure coconut was used because of availability plus high lather capacity.

Yes I think it's called 'sailors soap' because only CO has the ability to lather in sea water apparently.

 

[chirag_jj]

Welcome @chirag_jj! I visited Rajasthan 7 years ago. Where in India are you located?

I haven’t made 100% coconut oil soap, and I use 33-40% water. I’m afraid I don't recognize the sinking phenomenon in your pictures.

I’m wondering if it overheated, bubbled up or puffed up so the soap was pushed from the middle to the edges of the mold, and as it cooled the center collapsed. Overheating can be caused by having too high a percentage of water in your lye solution for the oils in the recipe. You might try running your recipe through the soap calculator using 2:1 water to lye or 1.5:1 water to lye, then make your coconut soap with the higher lye concentration. See if the problem improves.

Why are you using a 20% super fat level? Do you have an accurate scale that measures down to the 10th of a gram? Are you making a soap for personal use? Or are you making a cleaning soap for laundry?

Even if you have made soap for a long time, you may still find useful information in the Beginner’s Soap Making Forum. As you read through messages you will find other soap makers from India check in from time to time.

Haha, nice to know that you've been to India... I'm from Calcutta

Made the soap for personal use.
20% SF to reduce the cleansing and increase the moisturising effect

I don't have a scale which can measure to 10th of a gram but I've ordered it yesterday (mainly to measure out Lye and Essential Oils)

Thanks for the quick Response.
I mixed lye and oil at around 50C ~120F
Outside environment here in Calcutta is generally Humid and the temperature was around 28~30C ~ 85F

 

[chirag_jj]

I'm thinking the same as @ScentimentallyYours - in that your soap has had a 'reverse volcano' in that the soap has risen along the sides of the loaf, rather than in the middle. This could possibly happen if the sides heated up quicker than the interior, due to external temperature. Just make sure when you cut it that there are no caverns with 'teeth' inside.

@ScentimentallyYours - it is common to use a 20% superfat with a 100% CO soap to mitigate the overly cleansing effect of a high CO percentage.

Thanks for your inputs. I'll check for 'teeths' while cutting the soap

 

[Shelley D]

Thanks for your inputs. I'll check for 'teeths' while cutting the soap

If you can, post a picture ~ I am curious about this as I haven't experienced it myself yet.

 

[chirag_jj]

I'm thinking the same as @ScentimentallyYours - in that your soap has had a 'reverse volcano' in that the soap has risen along the sides of the loaf, rather than in the middle. This could possibly happen if the sides heated up quicker than the interior, due to external temperature. Just make sure when you cut it that there are no caverns with 'teeth' inside.

@ScentimentallyYours - it is common to use a 20% superfat with a 100% CO soap to mitigate the overly cleansing effect of a high CO percentage.

No teeths . I'll attach pictures of soap bar in this thread itself. Do have a look

 

[chirag_jj]

If you can, post a picture ~ I am curious about this as I haven't experienced it myself yet.

I have attached the picture of loaf in my original thread. I have cut the bar and will attach few pictures of the bars soon. Watch out this space

 

[A-Polly]

I was just reading an Auntie Clara blog post from 2017 on gelling, heating and overheating, and someone in the comments asked exactly the same question. Here is Auntie Clara's answer:

• Clara​

  June 14, 2017 | Reply
  I don’t know why it happens but here’s my guess: As the soap gets hot and enters gel phase it expands. The hotter it gets the more it expands. The center gets hotter than the sides even if the sides also enter gel phase. The volume of the hot soap in the centre pushes against the sides compacting the soap around the edges. As the soap cools down again it contracts, but because the soap around the edges has now been compacted it contracts less than the soap in the centre. And so the centre caves in relative to the sides.

And here is the entire blog post, detailing her beautifully photographed experiments:
https://auntieclaras.com/2015/06/ov...vdvusfjUXGgA5IDMPgcccrJjqYliUUX_KKTd7NmMKB8vQ
The article is very interesting, even though I think you've gotten similar answers above. Good luck with your next batches!

 

[Shelley D]

No teeths . I'll attach pictures of soap bar in this thread itself. Do have a look

Oh, I meant of the inside after you cut it Does it look like normal soap inside? I'm sure all is well if there is no teeth

 

[artemis]

I make 100% CO soap for the men in my house.

I think that the soap started to over heat, rose up I the center and then sank back down again, leaving this valley in the middle. I have seen my cavity mold rise up pretty dramatically before. These days I soap at room temperature, and I don't live in a hot climate, so I don't really experience this in my soap loaves. Even so, intend to do my CO in cavity molds since cutting a loaf is difficult when you don't do it at the right time.

The reason for the 20% suprefat (asked earlier in the thread) is to counter the harshness of the CO soap.