Soap, Salt & Sugar
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sugar impacts the lather, salt is supposed to make the bar harder (IME it doesn't, but people add it anyway; there's history to using salt but since we now use sodium hydroxide and not "lye" made from tree ash it's not really necessary, but that's for another day)
Can you put both in a soap recipe at the same time? Salt and sugar.
I know that salt makes the bar harder initally and can speed trace depending on how much you use and sugar gives more lather.
I understand and someone correct me if I am worng 1 tsp of salt per pound of oils and 1 TBS per pound of oils for sugar. SUgar does caramalize in ly so stir well. But i do not know if you can use them together in the same recipe and how you would use if both are included.
I know that salt makes the bar harder initally and can speed trace depending on how much you use and sugar gives more lather.
I understand and someone correct me if I am worng 1 tsp of salt per pound of oils and 1 TBS per pound of oils for sugar. SUgar does caramalize in ly so stir well. But i do not know if you can use them together in the same recipe and how you would use if both are included.
Yes, you can add both and the amount is somewhat flexible. When I remember, I add 2 tsp sugar and 1-3 tsp salt - depending on recipe.
Salt not only hardens the soap, but adds firmness, meaning soap keeps shape better during use. You can use salt to compensate for a softer recipe.
Salt not only hardens the soap, but adds firmness, meaning soap keeps shape better during use. You can use salt to compensate for a softer recipe.
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I always thought that adding salt to a soap recipe helped the moisture evaporate faster while the bars were curing. I don't know where I got that idea though. I add sugar to my water and stir to dissolve before adding the lye. I think it gives me more bubbles.
salt was used long ago when people made their own lye out of ashes. that lye was potassium based, which gives soft or liquid soap. by adding salt, the sodium in the salt (the Na in NaCl) swapped places with the potassium and so you end up with a harder bar. it cannot do that in soaps that are made with the lye we use now because our lye has only the Na (and not the potassium) anyway.
you can add salt if you want to; it won't hurt anything.
salt bars are rock hard, but those have huge amounts of salt.
sugar does seem to increase the amount of nice rich lather.
you can add salt if you want to; it won't hurt anything.
salt bars are rock hard, but those have huge amounts of salt.
sugar does seem to increase the amount of nice rich lather.
Well, everybody is free to experiment and convince themselves.
Sometimes, when I found that a soap I am using was too soft for my liking, I was able to almost instantly harden it, by soaking it in brine.
From what I read in various places on internet, it seems to me that the salt affects relationship between soap and water inside the soap bar in the sense that it pushes water away from the soap.
The amount of salt needed to harden the soap depends on the oils used. Probably for every recipe we can find a balance between the amount of salt, the hardness and the reduction in lather caused by adding the salt.
Sometimes, when I found that a soap I am using was too soft for my liking, I was able to almost instantly harden it, by soaking it in brine.
From what I read in various places on internet, it seems to me that the salt affects relationship between soap and water inside the soap bar in the sense that it pushes water away from the soap.
The amount of salt needed to harden the soap depends on the oils used. Probably for every recipe we can find a balance between the amount of salt, the hardness and the reduction in lather caused by adding the salt.
Soap Techniques
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Adding a bit of salt (~1.5% by weight of oils) will help out with the hardness. I have tried it myself, it works.
The physical properties of soap depend on several parameters, including its crystal character.
"The soap bar in-use properties such as hardness, hydration and wear rate, mush layer and lather volume, etc, are influenced strongly not only by the crystalline phase structure (including the liquid crystalline phase) but also by the shape and size of the crystalline phases.
...The addition of soluble electrolytes in the soap bar is widely use to increase the bar hardness with the same amount of soap concentration by taking the advantages of the electrolytes effect on the phase changes of soap and water."
Soap: Kirk-Othmer Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/30117203/Soap
Sodium Chloride (salt) is a strong electrolyte in water.
Therefore it makes sense that:
"Above a minimum of 0.7 percent of sodium chloride has hardening effect on soap."
The Complete Technology Book on Soaps, By Niir Board
http://books.google.ca/books?id=VTr-_4p ... &sa=X&ei=w , page 18
The physical properties of soap depend on several parameters, including its crystal character.
"The soap bar in-use properties such as hardness, hydration and wear rate, mush layer and lather volume, etc, are influenced strongly not only by the crystalline phase structure (including the liquid crystalline phase) but also by the shape and size of the crystalline phases.
...The addition of soluble electrolytes in the soap bar is widely use to increase the bar hardness with the same amount of soap concentration by taking the advantages of the electrolytes effect on the phase changes of soap and water."
Soap: Kirk-Othmer Encyclopedia of Chemical Technology.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/30117203/Soap
Sodium Chloride (salt) is a strong electrolyte in water.
Therefore it makes sense that:
"Above a minimum of 0.7 percent of sodium chloride has hardening effect on soap."
The Complete Technology Book on Soaps, By Niir Board
http://books.google.ca/books?id=VTr-_4p ... &sa=X&ei=w , page 18
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As an experiment I read the information in the link provided, I am assuming it is .7% of the total ingredients. If you had 22 oz of ingredients, then .7% of that would be .154 oz. According to my digital scale that would be about 1/2 tsp. salt.
I haven't ever added salt to my soap except for salt bars, so take this with a grain of salt :wink: , but I have read from others who do add just a tad of salt to their batches- like a tsp. ppo or so- that it really seems to help in the short term to harden things up, but that in the long term (after a full cure) their salted soaps are not any harder than their fully cured, unsalted soaps.
IrishLass
IrishLass
However, it seems to me that salt offers a certain degree of protection against slimeliness.
After a long cure, most soaps are rock hard, but some of them will turn to jellyfish during use.
Maybe you didn't add enough salt. I believe that relates to the soap solubility, with certain soap recipes requiring more salt than others.
I found some relevant information here:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21724/21 ... 1724-h.htm
The Handbook of Soap Manufacture, by W. H. Simmons, and H. A. Appleton - page 3
PrairieCraft
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There are a couple FOs I use that really slow trace and take forever to get hard enough to un-mold even with a steep water discount. Just to see, I tried adding a small amount of salt to my water before adding the lye. It did seem to make the soap a little bit harder sooner so I could get it out of the mold. It still didn't get really hard and it never seems to harden up faster than my other soaps without salt and after the same amount of cure time there is no difference.
So, my conclusion is that it isn't worth it to me to go to the trouble of using salt in every batch but I am going to continue to use it with my slow FOs so I can get the darn soap out of the mold sooner. I use a mostly OO recipe with a water discount. For someone using a lot of hard oils it probably isn't necessary.
As for sugar, I haven't noticed a difference with or without but use it anyway because so many others who probably have greater observational skills than I do notice it and it doesn't hurt.
So, my conclusion is that it isn't worth it to me to go to the trouble of using salt in every batch but I am going to continue to use it with my slow FOs so I can get the darn soap out of the mold sooner. I use a mostly OO recipe with a water discount. For someone using a lot of hard oils it probably isn't necessary.
As for sugar, I haven't noticed a difference with or without but use it anyway because so many others who probably have greater observational skills than I do notice it and it doesn't hurt.
Hi verotxu,
Welcome to the forum!
You can add the sugar to the lye solution. Supposedly the heat helps to dissolve the lye; however, when I did it this way I ended up with chunks of sugar at the bottom of the container. I switched to taking a little of the water amount, warming it in the microwave and then dissolving the sugar in it. Then I'd add it to the batch right after I poured the lye solution in it. This isn't the only way to do it. It's just how I learned to do it since it worked out better for me.
Dissolve the salt into the water for your lye before you add the lye if you want salt to help harden the soap to get it out of the mold more quickly.
For a salt bar batch, I add salt at about medium trace or even thick trace so it stays suspended throughout the soap. If you add salt too early, there's a chance the salt will settle to the bottom of the mold.
Welcome to the forum!
You can add the sugar to the lye solution. Supposedly the heat helps to dissolve the lye; however, when I did it this way I ended up with chunks of sugar at the bottom of the container. I switched to taking a little of the water amount, warming it in the microwave and then dissolving the sugar in it. Then I'd add it to the batch right after I poured the lye solution in it. This isn't the only way to do it. It's just how I learned to do it since it worked out better for me.
Dissolve the salt into the water for your lye before you add the lye if you want salt to help harden the soap to get it out of the mold more quickly.
For a salt bar batch, I add salt at about medium trace or even thick trace so it stays suspended throughout the soap. If you add salt too early, there's a chance the salt will settle to the bottom of the mold.
Pepper
Well-Known Member
Three weeks ago I made a 100% olive oil soap with 8% sf. 1000g oil, with 1 level dessertspoon of table salt, and ditto of sugar. I dissolved the salt and sugar in a small amount of the water, heated to make dissolving easier. I added this after mixing the oil and lye. It traced very quickly, and was ready to unmould the following day (it gelled in the mould). The bars are at the moment rock solid, but I haven't used any of them yet.
