Soap not lasting :(

[azimuth]

Help! Maybe someone has an answer to this.. my family and friends and complaining that my soap bars aren't "lasting very long", maybe a month, they say. How do I make them last longer? Do I try a water discount??? :thumbdown:

 

[meeplesoap]

A month is a long time for handmade soap, especially if multiple members of a household are using them!

- Using a draining soap dish, or the type with tiny little spikes. Soap sitting in water or heat will literally melt away!

- Use a higher percentage of harder oils, soaps with mostly soft oils like olive will dissolve faster unless they have a very long cure!

- A water discount will only make it easier to unmold sooner - if you're letting your bars cure long enough, that excess water is evaporating anyway. I found soaping with a discount to be more temperamental, I like having the "cushion" of full water (plus I use 1/2 goat milk, and with really any discount I don't have enough water to dissolve my lye!), but you can certainly try it!

 

[Marilyna]

I agree, a month seems like plenty of time to me.!

 

[Obsidian]

How long are you letting them cure?

 

[azimuth]

they have cured over 4 months now. I think it may be the high amount of olive oil ... 27oz OO, 5 oz CO, 7oz Goats Milk, 2.5 oz of pureed bananas, and 4.3 oz Lye. I usually SF at 5%.

 

[robtr31]

a month is lots of time , ask them how long there bars lasted before yours maybe there like them so much there washing more.

 

[innerdiva73]

A water discount and or a long cure might help. My family complained about that as well. The soap that is at the stores has been sitting for 1 to 2 years before it hits the shelf. I noticed you have 27 oz of OO and 5 oz of CO maybe you could add more harder oils to your recipe.

 

[DeeAnna]

Also many commercial soaps are milled, which makes the bars harder and less soluble. Commercial soaps usually do not contain as much, if any, glycerin, which increases the solubility. They may not even be 100% soap; many are detergent based. Even if a commercial bar is mostly soap, it may not have as many "soft" oils in it, which affect the durability of the soap.

I personally think it's not practical to compare handcrafted soap with commercial soap; they are so different. I agree with the others that a month is a really long life for a handcrafted soap bar. Or even a commercial soap bar for that matter.

 

[Candybee]

A month is great! What's their problem?

 

[innerdiva73]

Commercial soaps have had their glycerine extracted and have so many other chemicals that contribute to a harder bar. What kills me about people is that they are always comparing to store bought soap and there is NO comparison!!! Try to explain to them that store bought soap is "chemical based" and has detergents in them that are synthetics and can irritate and cause inflammation in a number of skin conditions in people. But honestly there is no comparison. Homemade soaps are very high in glycerine. Glycerine is also a humectant which attracts moisture so put it all together and explains why handmade soaps are not as lasting as commercial based soaps. But in the end, Be very proud of yourself for making your own soap as some people don't have the patience or the know how even with all the info on the internet!! Youv'e done GOOD!!:razz:

 

[savonierre]

How many people use the soap? Does it sit on a soap dish that drains?

 

[Paintguru]

- Use a higher percentage of harder oils, soaps with mostly soft oils like olive will dissolve faster unless they have a very long cure!

!

According to Scientific Soapmaking, sodium oleate (predominant soap of olive oil) is less soluble in water than sodium laurate (predominant soap of coconut oil). Therefore, in theory, an olive oil based soap should last longer than a coconut oil based soap. In fact sodium laurate appears to be the most soluble of all the standard soaps that we create.

 

[Robert]

According to Scientific Soapmaking, sodium oleate (predominant soap of olive oil) is less soluble in water than sodium laurate (predominant soap of coconut oil). Therefore, in theory, an olive oil based soap should last longer than a coconut oil based soap. In fact sodium laurate appears to be the most soluble of all the standard soaps that we create.

Were they quoting solubility in terms of how much can dissolve in a given amount of water? Trouble is, that doesn't tell you how fast something dissolves.

 

[DeeAnna]

The amount of lather and the degree of cleansing will tells you the relative solubility of a soap, all other things being equal.

Coconut or PKO (lauric, myristic fatty acids) makes a soap with more lather, strong cleansing, and more soluble. Lard, tallow, palm (palmitic, stearic) make less lather, are less soluble, and milder cleansing. When you get into the mono- and poly-unsaturated oils (oleic, linoleic, linolenic), the solubility (aka lather) and cleansing go down even more, but these oils make soap softer so it will abrade more easily. It's all a tradeoff.

Recipes with a high percentage of the softer solid fats -- lard, tallow, palm, etc. -- will create a soap with moderate hardness, acceptable lather, mild cleansing, and moderate solubility. Add brittle fats -- CO, PKO, etc. -- for fluffier lather, stronger cleansing, and bar hardness. Add the liquid mono- and poly-unsaturated fats for more conditioning and creamier lather.

 

[Paintguru]

Were they quoting solubility in terms of how much can dissolve in a given amount of water? Trouble is, that doesn't tell you how fast something dissolves.

How "much" would depend more on the solvent and how much of the solute it can hold.

I think this, as DeeAnna said, is how fast the particular soap dissolves in water (hence the quicker lather for coconut oil vs. olive oil). Again, as DeeAnna said, those give you a softer soap early on, partially due to the speed at which water migrates out of the bar, so the soap can be removed more easily via mechanical means.

 

[heartsong]

I add sodium lactate powder from lotioncrafters...2 tsps. per pound of oil, added to the water before adding the lye...it's not a magic bullet, but does slow "shower melt" http://www.lotioncrafter.com/sodium-lactate_powder.html

depending on the size of the bar, my 4.5 oz bar lasts about a month for 2 people...natural soap doesn't last as long as the store bought commercial detergent bars.

 

[Paintguru]

I add sodium lactate powder from lotioncrafters...2 tsps. per pound of oil, added to the water before adding the lye...it's not a magic bullet, but does slow "shower melt" http://www.lotioncrafter.com/sodium-lactate_powder.html

depending on the size of the bar, my 4.5 oz bar lasts about a month for 2 people...natural soap doesn't last as long as the store bought commercial detergent bars.

Interesting...That additional salt (similar to adding NaCl) probably speeds up the initial saponification and gives the harder bar to start. So perhaps the solution to longer lasting bars is a higher dose of unsaturated fats for reduced water solubility combined with reduced water/added salt to increase initial mechanical hardness. You could then tack on some sugar to increase the lather so you're not left bubble-less!

 

[heartsong]

Interesting...That additional salt (similar to adding NaCl) probably speeds up the initial saponification and gives the harder bar to start. So perhaps the solution to longer lasting bars is a higher dose of unsaturated fats for reduced water solubility combined with reduced water/added salt to increase initial mechanical hardness. You could then tack on some sugar to increase the lather so you're not left bubble-less!

I also add 2 tsps. sugar ppo to the water before adding the lye...I get plenty of lather for having hard water...thinking of increasing sugar to 1 Tbsp and comparing the difference.

 

[MKRainville]

I love all this chemistry talk... Talk nerdy to me baby! lol (BS in Bio here)

 

[DeeAnna]

Yep. Card-carrying nerd. Guilty as charged.

A soured milk -- yogurt or buttermilk -- will increase the sodium lactate in soap, if you don't want to add sodium lactate directly as an ingredient.