Soap Bar Properties - Cleansing/Conditioning

[KiwiMoose]

Hi again,

Just looking at some new recipes to experiment with, and I've run them though a calculator.

One of them has cleansing properties of 24, where the average range in SoapCalc is usually 12-22. By having a higher cleansing rate, would this mean that the soap could also be drying? The conditioning rate for this same recipe is at 56 (average range stated is 44-69). Would this be enough to offset?

I really want to give this recipe a try, because all the other properties are at a place that I think will be good (I'm searching for my 'ultimate' recipe). So if you all think that '24' is not too harsh for cleansing, I might give it a shot tomorrow.

Cheers.

 

[earlene]

What works for me and my skin, might not work as well for you and your skin. Remember that some things really are subjective, and how cleansing a soap is tends to be one of those things for some people.

I wouldn't want a '24' cleansing number, because my skin doesn't like it, but I have found that oddly enough, with an egg yolk soap I made a high cleansing number was not harsh. Part of that may have been due to the higher SF, and part of that may have been due to the additional attributes brought to the soap by the egg yolk. But that's the only soap I've made where a higher cleansing number worked out well on my skin.

So my advice, is to try it in a small batch and see how your skin responds. That's really the only true best way to know how your skin will react.

 

[Dean]

Conditioning doesnt offset cleansing. I personally think the cond number is meaningless. I’d go as low as u can on cleansing...just enough to produce sufficient lather. Mine is 10. 13 is = 20% CO...which is about as high as most soapers go.

 

[Obsidian]

I've found that the conditioning number really has no correlation to how dry or tight my skin might feel. When I first started soaping, I always aimed for a high con # and my soaps were never very good. Part of it was due to the fact my skin hates olive oil and part to using too much coconut.

Now the only number I really watch is the cleansing, it absolutely must stay under 15, with 10-11 being best for me and most members of my family. My husband can handle more but he doesn't mind dry skin.

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm in agreement that the "conditioning" number isn't particularly helpful. It's the % of oleic, linoleic, linolenic, and ricinolenic acids in the soap. I ignore it.

Dean's right -- a high conditioning number doesn't necessarily offset the "cleansing" number, which is the % of lauric and myristic acids in the soap. These fatty acids have the ability to over-clean -- they can strip fat and protein off the surface of the skin, causing dryness and irritation for a fairly high % of people.

For another, the conditioning number doesn't seem to be defined well. "Conditioning" doesn't make sense, IMO, when describing soap -- I'd probably vote for calling it the "mildness" number instead, but that's not quite right either. Oleic acid doesn't necessarily make a super mild soap -- a high oleic soap is highly soluble in water and can be drying to some people's skin. I would also argue that this number should include the % of palmitic and stearic acids. These are the fatty acids that add hardness and low solubility which are two traits that add mildness to a soap. I'm also not sure why ricinoleic acid is included in this number -- it doesn't seem to do much for adding mildness to soap.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Thank you all so much for your responses - most helpful.

 

[Carolyne Thrasher]

Newbie here. I may not have as sensitive skin as some, but I have a friend who’s allergic to lots of things and has problems with all commercially made products. She’s volunteered to test out soaps for me. I test them on myself first and giver her a full ingredients list and tell her about what the different properties that soap is supposed to have. Lots of my recipes are in the high teens low 20s on soapcalc for cleansing. So far she’s really liked everything I’ve had her try. I go pretty basic with 30/30/30/10 or 40/25/25/10. For the higher amounts I trade up between coconut, olive, canola, rice bran, palm. I split the 10 up into 2 and have used combos of mango butter, Shea butter, castor oil, avocado oil, chia seed oil. I always use coconut oil.

I’ve started trying trendy recipes. I have salt bars curing. Next up bastille, solseife, shampoo bars, shave soap. When I get ready to do something far from my base recipes, I search the forum, Facebook groups, websites, Pinterest and read, read, read. I only rarely make substitutions before I trial a known recipe from a well known soaper. I run everything through soap calc first.

That’s my process. I have 15 cold process batches under my belt which isn’t a lot. There are so many variables. I enjoy experimenting but I don’t want to waste materials and I don’t want to have to throw out batches which is why I read lots and start with tried and let other peoples experience guide me. One note: when I find two experienced soapers giving opposite opinions, advice, or whatever; it’s most likely because whatever the issue it is a matter of preference. For example how to add milk to a recipe. I think there are 4 ways to do it and none are disastrous but all will slightly change how you handle your soap batter.

Hope that helps.

C