Soap acceleration again and again!

[Tracy von Elling]

Hi everyone,

I continue to get my soap accelerating and am trying to do a nice drop swirl or something more fancy but of course each time it thickens so fast! I stir in lye and hand stir a bit then SB for around 10 seconds. That is all.

My recipe is 75% olive oil, 10% castor and 25% coconut oil. I am doing a water discount so % of oils is set to 25 so I can unmould quicker. It's a friend's recipe and she actually had it set to % of oils as 20.

I am adding TD to the entire batch before I add my mica's so that I have a nice white colour first. Not sure if this is making it accelerate. Also used spearmint this time and I don't think it's the EO. I'm soaping almost at room temp. Soap queen says we need to soap hotter to stop acceleration but others have said lower. So I am not sure and I apologize that this is long! I would as always appreciate any help. I have found this group to be very helpful so thanks in advance

 

[atiz]

Using more water (lower lye:water ratio) might help with keeping it more fluid longer. If 10 seconds of stick blending is too much, you could also try just hand stirring it (making sure you get to emulsion). I have no experience with TD... but a lot of people use it here, so they will be able to help. Good luck!

 

[Tracy von Elling]

I may need to use more water and not do a water discount. This recipe is a friend's and she had said it would take days to unmould with so much olive oil so she does the water discount. I had never used a recipe with a water discount before. I will try hand stirring. Thanks for this suggestion!

 

[KiwiMoose]

I'm not an expert, but in my experience I would say the stick blending is too much - just keep it to a short bursts of a second or two. Then stir with the stick blender a bit more, then another short burst, etc.
DON'T let it get to trace - once it does it will keep on moving without you even touching it. Just emulsify to get the oil slicks off the top and that is all. Once you add the colours you will be mixing it even more so it's best not to overdo it at this stage.
I use TD all the time, but not excessively - only a teaspoon per LITRE of oils. I've had no trouble with it accelerating.
Definitely use more water. I had similar issues to what you describe until i started using more water (my lye concentration is usually around 28%).
Cut the castor back to 5% because that can accelerate.
Hope that helps
ETA: Be forewarned that at 28% lye conc, and by using TD you will likely get glycerin rivers if gelling.

 

[dibbles]

Your oils don't add up to 100%, so I'll assume you meant 15% coconut, 75% olive oil, 10% castor. Try a 30% lye concentration. If you are using pomace olive oil, that can accelerate trace. Castor can accelerate trace - I don't use more than 5%, and even less or none if I want a super long working time. I usually soap around 90-100. Your spearmint EO shouldn't have been a problem. KiwiMoose is right about just blending to emulsion. It can be tricky, but here is the holy grail of videos that newbie made about that. It helped me immensely, and it is worth trying until you can do it. I rarely take my batter to trace anymore before splitting to color.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/stickblending-to-emulsion.60618/

 

[Dawni]

I've done a soap similar to that with 80% pomace, 15% coconut and 5% castor and did not SB at all. I hand stirred til emulsion and I am very sure it was all mixed in without the SB. I also soaped that one room temp and with less water too.

Maybe try everything else the same and don't SB at all. Mix only until emulsion, and then add your TD and whatever other colors. See if that works for you.

I have to say though, that a high olive oil soap turns pretty white over time so unless you really like the white TD gives, maybe try a batch without it. I've not noticed if it accelerates (I haven't used it in CP) but my white kaolin does.

 

[earlene]

Is your olive oil pomace? I only hand stir when I use pomace olive oil at 50%. So that's one possibility. But if your olive oil is regular olive oil, or extra virgin OO or anything other than pomace, I wouldn't expect it to thicken up quite so fast. With plain OO, it usually slows trace when soaping cool and using the SB sparingly.

However, in my experience, Castor oil also speeds trace, so that's another contributing factor, particularly with 10%.

TD always thickens my soap batter much faster than other colors, except green (but the green has TD mixed in according to the manufacture, so that explains that.)

To test out the idea that TD is thickening your batter, try this: Separate your batter Before adding any colorants. Mix TD in only one portion, and mix the other color micas into the other portions. Take notice of which ones cause the batter to thicken and which ones don't. You may find your results interesting.

 

[Andrew]

castor oil accelerates trace. that is one factor. As far as temperature goes, I would try to hit as close to 100˚ as possible. Too cold and your soap will seize, too warm and it will saponify too quick. When i make soap with designs, colors, micas, etc. i will use 225g water to 1000g oils and stir to the lightest of traces.

 

[Susie]

First off, don't change the water as % of oils. Put that back to default and leave it alone.

Change the lye concentration to 30-33%. Less water = more time to work with it.

Try using white mica rather than TD. I have acceleration every time I use TD.

Mix just to emulsion. Hand stir if needed. Use lowest power on SB if using that.

Soap cool. Everything at room temperature.

Hold your FO out until you have mixed the colors in. Then hand stir in the FO and work quickly after that.

If you want to unmold easier, use SL. Otherwise, encourage gel by insulating, and see if it is ready to unmold in 18-24 hours. I use more hard oils, and I unmold usually in 12-15 hours. (Mostly because I just let it go overnight.)

 

[Andrew]

I am unsure of which pour technique you are using but below are great videos for visual reference. Soaping 101 is a great resource.

If you use too little water your soap will set too fast. For more time working with the recipe, add more water. The reasons are it 1) literally waters down the soap and 2) it slows down the saponification reaction rate. I ignore the water part of recipes and base my water % for the soap off of the oils. For every kilo of oils you are using, I would think 225g-250g is enough to properly get the designs you want. But that is just me.

If you soap this recipe at room temperature then the coconut oil will be solid. I always do 100˚, but you could go as low as 90˚ with no issues.

Try reducing to 5% castor oil. That should really help.

I have had pigment powders really accelerate trace before. I am unsure of exactly why. That is another thing to keep in mind. I do not know if titanium dioxide does that.

 

[Tracy von Elling]

I'm not an expert, but in my experience I would say the stick blending is too much - just keep it to a short bursts of a second or two. Then stir with the stick blender a bit more, then another short burst, etc.
DON'T let it get to trace - once it does it will keep on moving without you even touching it. Just emulsify to get the oil slicks off the top and that is all. Once you add the colours you will be mixing it even more so it's best not to overdo it at this stage.
I use TD all the time, but not excessively - only a teaspoon per LITRE of oils. I've had no trouble with it accelerating.
Definitely use more water. I had similar issues to what you describe until i started using more water (my lye concentration is usually around 28%).
Cut the castor back to 5% because that can accelerate.
Hope that helps
ETA: Be forewarned that at 28% lye conc, and by using TD you will likely get glycerin rivers if gelling.

I'm going to stick blend less and cut the castor to 5% along with use a little more water in soap calc.
Thank you for all the help!

I am unsure of which pour technique you are using but below are great videos for visual reference. Soaping 101 is a great resource.

If you use too little water your soap will set too fast. For more time working with the recipe, add more water. The reasons are it 1) literally waters down the soap and 2) it slows down the saponification reaction rate. I ignore the water part of recipes and base my water % for the soap off of the oils. For every kilo of oils you are using, I would think 225g-250g is enough to properly get the designs you want. But that is just me.

If you soap this recipe at room temperature then the coconut oil will be solid. I always do 100˚, but you could go as low as 90˚ with no issues.

Try reducing to 5% castor oil. That should really help.

I have had pigment powders really accelerate trace before. I am unsure of exactly why. That is another thing to keep in mind. I do not know if titanium dioxide does that.

You've given me so much to consider. Thank you. I was trying to do a pot where you poor down the side of the mould alternating colours. I'm going to do more water for sure.

castor oil accelerates trace. that is one factor. As far as temperature goes, I would try to hit as close to 100˚ as possible. Too cold and your soap will seize, too warm and it will saponify too quick. When i make soap with designs, colors, micas, etc. i will use 225g water to 1000g oils and stir to the lightest of traces.

Next batch I'm using less castor and more water. I think I've been afraid of hand stirring in case I don't get to emulsofication but I'm going to try this and see how it works for me. With so much soft oils I should have lots of time to do swirls etc.
Thanks for the help and suggestions!

 

[earlene]

Tracy, here is a good article on factors that affect how fast or slow your soap will trace, and gives good suggestions for slight changes to control trace.

You didn't answer my question about if your Olive Oil is pomace olive oil or plain olive oil. Changing the type of olive oil you are using will make a difference as well, IF it is pomace.

 

[Tracy von Elling]

Tracy, here is a good article on factors that affect how fast or slow your soap will trace, and gives good suggestions for slight changes to control trace.

You didn't answer my question about if your Olive Oil is pomace olive oil or plain olive oil. Changing the type of olive oil you are using will make a difference as well, IF it is pomace.

Oh I really thought I had replied. Thanks for wanting to help. I'm using just regular olive oil but not pomice. I appreciate the link. I'll go read up more because this part of soap making has been pretty frustrating because my recipe is high percentage of olive which I find isn't as nice and bubbly as coconut oil even with asking sugar or honey but I'm using it because I know it shouldn't trace fast!
Thank you, again!

 

[Hils67]

Your oils don't add up to 100%, so I'll assume you meant 15% coconut, 75% olive oil, 10% castor. Try a 30% lye concentration. If you are using pomace olive oil, that can accelerate trace. Castor can accelerate trace - I don't use more than 5%, and even less or none if I want a super long working time. I usually soap around 90-100. Your spearmint EO shouldn't have been a problem. KiwiMoose is right about just blending to emulsion. It can be tricky, but here is the holy grail of videos that newbie made about that. It helped me immensely, and it is worth trying until you can do it. I rarely take my batter to trace anymore before splitting to color.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/stickblending-to-emulsion.60618/

Thank you for sharing this video! It’s so helpful in knowing when to stop blending. I too have been struggling recently with batter setting up too quickly. I’m always paranoid of not emulsifying enough and the batter splitting. This video gives me confidence to try again!

 

[earlene]

Oh I really thought I had replied. Thanks for wanting to help. I'm using just regular olive oil but not pomice. I appreciate the link. I'll go read up more because this part of soap making has been pretty frustrating because my recipe is high percentage of olive which I find isn't as nice and bubbly as coconut oil even with asking sugar or honey but I'm using it because I know it shouldn't trace fast!
Thank you, again!

Maybe you did and I missed it! No worries either way.

 

[Primrose]

Oh I really thought I had replied. Thanks for wanting to help. I'm using just regular olive oil but not pomice. I appreciate the link. I'll go read up more because this part of soap making has been pretty frustrating because my recipe is high percentage of olive which I find isn't as nice and bubbly as coconut oil even with asking sugar or honey but I'm using it because I know it shouldn't trace fast!
Thank you, again!

Consider using lard