Shea Butter vs Cocoa Butter

[MotherGoddess]

I'm brand new to soap making with one whole batch under my belt, but I've already got plans for probably the next 5 8) . I'm trying to keep my recipe simple, since I don't have the funds to spend on a lot of different oils and I want to get a simple recipe down before I branch out into more complicated stuff. My first batch was actually goat milk, oatmeal, honey, and although I'm sure I added my lye too quickly and burnt my milk (turned pumpkin orange) and achieved a partial gel, and had a huge recipe, I think it will turn out to be usable. I had no idea I was jumping in with an intermediate/advanced soap and have lots of plans to get it better in the future. My next batch will be just 32 oz of oils and just Olive oil, Coconut oil, Palm oil, and castor oil. However, the batch after that I want to include shea or cocoa butter in place of some of the coconut oil (yes, I've been using soapcalc to play with the recipies and make sure my numbers are right). So my question is, which do you prefer, or what are the different qualities of shea butter vs cocoa butter. How does it change your finished product? I assume I'll eventually get around to making a batch of each and seeing for myself how they compare, but for now I need a jumping off point for deciding how to start.

 

[trishwosere]

I think it's a case of each to his/her own, personally I prefer shea over cocoa. I use the same oils as you with the addition of shea and I love how it makes my soap feel, it seems to nourish the skin and not dry it out. It also has the added bonus of being a lot cheaper than cocoa butter - it is here in the U.K anyway

 

[MotherGoddess]

Thanks trish. From the prices I'm looking at, cocoa butter seems a little more expensive then shea butter, but not prohibitively so. Well shoot, I may just have to make a batch of each . An additional question, how do they work together in a soap? Do those of you who have very complex recipies with 8 or more oils (jojoba, avacodo, etc) find it makes a truly superior bar of soap then the ones with just 3 or 4 oils?

 

[Soaplady22]

An additional question, how do they work together in a soap? Do those of you who have very complex recipies with 8 or more oils (jojoba, avacodo, etc) find it makes a truly superior bar of soap then the ones with just 3 or 4 oils?

They work together well - I used to do it all the time. But now I'm low on cocoa butter. As for many oils vesus the few ....... it all depends on your recipe and how the oils work together. Many of us have gone from simple to ridiculous and then returned to simple with our heads hanging in grief but all the wiser. It really just depends on your recipe. And you just have to keep experiementing, changing one thing at a time.

BTW - jojoba is much better used in a lotion. Just thought I'd say ~
Avocado is nice though!!

 

[judymoody]

I prefer cocoa butter over shea - I like the hardness it imparts to the bar and shea tends to ash on me if I don't gel. Also shea allergy is fairly common.

I tried about every soaping oil under the sun and now I'm back to the basics - OO, CO (or PKO), PO, and sometimes castor or CB.

 

[carebear]

I'm with Judy. I prefer cocoa butter over shea. It adds to the dense lather that coconut lacks. Shea does as well, but it's not as great, IMO.

 

[Bukawww]

I prefer shea over cocoa so definitely a personal preference issue.

I think it softens the edges of my high coconut oil soap (coconut and shea butter only)...I made a bar of coconut/cocoa butter and found it to be very drying for some reason and I don't get that just by replacing it with shea so I dunno.

I only use simple recipes. I have a high olive and a high coconut that seems to pretty much please the masses. 3 oils or less for me.

 

[Lynnz]

I started out using Shea but turned to Cocoa Butter after doing comparisson tests as I feel my bars are harder for the use of it and just that tad more dense in lather.....................Yip it costs more but I cannot imagine soap without it now

 

[Stinkydancer]

I like them both and use both. Cocoa butter can break some people out so that is something to think about. I can't use it on my face for that reason.

I say go with whatever recipe you like. The most important thing is to work within your budget and remember sometimes the simplest soap recipes are the best.

Good luck!

 

[kbuska]

Its just my opinion but stay on the simple side using core oils. It's fun to experiment here and there but you can also get carried away spend way to much money and end up with a really expensive bar of soap that chemically is similar to soap that is made with simple commonly used oils.

Again this is just my opinion from my own research.

 

[Stinkydancer]

Its just my opinion but stay on the simple side using core oils. It's fun to experiment here and there but you can also get carried away spend way to much money and end up with a really expensive bar of soap that chemically is similar to soap that is made with simple commonly used oils.

Again this is just my opinion from my own research.

Is it research or actual soap making? I have been making soap over 20 years and what was the norm then isn't what it is now.

You better bring something to the table if you make soap and plan to sell it. Soap recipes using "Core oils" aren't enough for buyers anymore since everyone and their mother makes soap now. If you want to do well in the soap biz, you really need a good moisturizing product with oils people want on their skin.
Shea and Cocoa add great qualities to soap and are worth the money. Soap making isn't cheap if you plan to sell. You can make cheap soap for home but for the market- not so much.
This has been my experience...

 

[kbuska]

What does Shea butter add once it's consumed by the lye.

 

[Stinkydancer]

Creaminess...and in high Olive Oil content- hardness if you forgo Palm, Lard or Tallow. Cocoa Butter does the same.

 

[kbuska]

I do want to get into a debate with you because with 20 years behind you you have much more experience but I have made soap with and without Shea butter and can tell very little difference. In soap calc I bet you can make an equally great bar of soap using other ingredients.

My whole point is there are many ways to skin a cat, and you don't need to invest a ton of money on exotic oils or butters to make a great bar of soap. Not that Shea butter is exotic or expensive. It was merely an observation.

I do agree with you that customers hear names like Shea butter and marketing tells them, it must be more moisturizing.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Stinkydancer means for "label appeal" as well. Consumers are more sophisticated these days and follow the trends.

In my experience, when I tried 5% Shea Butter in soap it didn't seem to make much difference, so I tried 10% and couldn't tell the difference between 5 & 10%, so I went to 20% and then I could say it made a difference (in my recipe). However like you "kbuska" I prefer my basic, simple recipe. :wink:

I like both cocoa butter and shea butter but I probably prefer Shea Butter at the moment. This could change.

 

[paillo]

i mostly use shea because it's so much less expensive than cocoa butter and i agree it adds creaminess. i add sodium lactate for hardness and for its natural humectant properties, and always tussah silk.

my core oils are organic, sustainable palm, coconut, olive, avocado or sweet almond, castor and shea (at about 20 percent). but i went wild a while back and bought all kinds of other oils, now trying to use them up as well -- rice bran, grapeseed, high oleic sunflower, babassu. but i prefer my tried-and-true cores...

agree that buyers are pretty sophisticated and 'label appeal' is important. but do what you like best, it is largely a matter of personal preference and what makes you happiest soaping

 

[Stinkydancer]

I do want to get into a debate with you because with 20 years behind you you have much more experience but I have made soap with and without Shea butter and can tell very little difference. In soap calc I bet you can make an equally great bar of soap using other ingredients.

My whole point is there are many ways to skin a cat, and you don't need to invest a ton of money on exotic oils or butters to make a great bar of soap. Not that Shea butter is exotic or expensive. It was merely an observation.

I do agree with you that customers hear names like Shea butter and marketing tells them, it must be more moisturizing.

Sorry if I came off rude- that wasn't my intention at all.

I do agree that you can make a great bar of soap cheap but certain oils can kick it up a notch. My most favorite recipe for personal use doesn't use either of these butters at all. But I don't think my customers would like the slime factor of a high OO bar.

I think it depends on percentages you use as to whether or not you can tell as well.
Soaping is all about the synergy of the oils and everyone's recipe is different so what works for some may not work for others.
I say go with what you like best and what works for your skin as well.
8)

 

[Elly]

Interesting thread, I've never used shea butter in my soaps but I am going to give a go. It is really helpful to read about this issues here, thanks guys :wink:

 

[MotherGoddess]

Hey, thanks for all the replies. This turned out to be a really interesting topic! I'm glad to hear that a lot of you stick with very simple soap recipes, as that's what speaks to me the most right now. Is there a place that lists all of the different oils and what attributes they provide in a finished soap product? Like that coconut oil can be drying but produces good bubbles? What does palm oil contribute other than hardness? When tweaking my recipe to include shea butter or cocoa butter should I borrow percentages from coconut oil or from palm oil?

I can't even start my next batch of soap until my BB order arrives, lol, but this is what's swirling around in my head right now.

 

[LisaNY]

Its just my opinion but stay on the simple side using core oils. It's fun to experiment here and there but you can also get carried away spend way to much money and end up with a really expensive bar of soap that chemically is similar to soap that is made with simple commonly used oils.

Again this is just my opinion from my own research.

Is it research or actual soap making? I have been making soap over 20 years and what was the norm then isn't what it is now.

You better bring something to the table if you make soap and plan to sell it. Soap recipes using "Core oils" aren't enough for buyers anymore since everyone and their mother makes soap now. If you want to do well in the soap biz, you really need a good moisturizing product with oils people want on their skin.
Shea and Cocoa add great qualities to soap and are worth the money. Soap making isn't cheap if you plan to sell. You can make cheap soap for home but for the market- not so much.
This has been my experience...

I know lots of successful soapers who only use basic core oils (CO, Palm(or PKO) and Olive) - it can be done. )

Also, soap does not moisturize - it cleans. (You can claim gentle and non-drying, but not moisturizing, IMO.) )