Shampoo Bars, questions before making

[DeeAnna]

"...I see you took the step to a silicone..."

Kiwi mentioned she is using "vegetable silicone". I'm not sure I'd assume she means the usual silicones that everyone loves to hate.

If she is using hemisqualane (I don't know that she is -- just guessing), this ingredient is very definitely not a silicone. It's made from sugarcane and it is used as an alternative to some types of silicones.

In haircare products, hemisqualane reduces combing friction, adds shine, and reduces frizz. It's on the expensive side, but it's very nice.

 

[Gaisy59]

"...I see you took the step to a silicone..."

Kiwi mentioned she is using "vegetable silicone". I'm not sure I'd assume she means the usual silicones that everyone loves to hate.

If she is using hemisqualane (I don't know that she is -- just guessing), this ingredient is very definitely not a silicone. It's made from sugarcane and it is used as an alternative to some types of silicones.

In haircare products, hemisqualane reduces combing friction, adds shine, and reduces frizz. It's on the expensive side, but it's very nice.

well that sounds very interesting. I would like that idea!

Also, I am one of the shampooers that bought a syndet bar to try and I love it. It has been over two months now and my hair feels great and no scalp issues so far (not superstitious but “touch wood” lol).

 

[Kcryss]

Gaisy59, what are the ingredients on the syndet bar you purchased or what is the brand?

 

[KiwiMoose]

"...I see you took the step to a silicone..."

Kiwi mentioned she is using "vegetable silicone". I'm not sure I'd assume she means the usual silicones that everyone loves to hate.

If she is using hemisqualane (I don't know that she is -- just guessing), this ingredient is very definitely not a silicone. It's made from sugarcane and it is used as an alternative to some types of silicones.

In haircare products, hemisqualane reduces combing friction, adds shine, and reduces frizz. It's on the expensive side, but it's very nice.

Here is the description:

INCI: Hydrogenated Ethylhexyl Olivate (and) Hydrogenated Olive Oil Unsaponifiables

This highly stable transparent liquid emollient is of olive origin, with great affinity for the skin. It can be used as a vegetable alternative to silicones (Cyclomethicone D5, Dimethicone DC 200, etc) and has a stable viscosity at any temperature (like Cyclomethicone D5). It also exhibits both stable colour and odour at high temperature (100º C) as well as stable peroxide value at high temperature (100º C), just like silicones. It is compatible with most oily ingredients, even those with different polarities, unlike silicones.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Week Two of testing and one of my testers has reported back that the first recipe is too drying for her hair. I've been ok with it and so has my other tester, but had always thought it could do with improvement.
I used my new bar today ( the one with the silicone^ and a few other tweaks), and I can say for sure that it feels a lot nicer and less drying. So I'll get a bar to the other testers today to see what they think.
I daresay I would have more success if I used cocamidopropyl betaine in my recipe - but that's my little bandwagon to formulate a recipe without it.

 

[Kcryss]

KiwiMoose, are you able to get Coco Betaine in NZ? On thethingswellmake there is a recipe for a shampoo bar that contains Coco Betaine, but I can't seem to get it here in the US.

 

[KiwiMoose]

KiwiMoose, are you able to get Coco Betaine in NZ? On thethingswellmake there is a recipe for a shampoo bar that contains Coco Betaine, but I can't seem to get it here in the US.

Yes it is readily available - if you mean cocamidopropyl betaine - or is coco something different?

ETA - oops they are different: https://realizebeauty.wordpress.com...camidopropyl-betaine-are-different-chemicals/

 

[Kcryss]

Yeah, they are very different. We can get all the cocamidopropyl betaine we want here and can find things labeled as Coco Betaine, but it's really just cocamidopropyl betaine.

 

[Gaisy59]

Gaisy59, what are the ingredients on the syndet bar you purchased or what is the brand?

The bar is from Unwrapped Life from here in Alberta I believe.

 

[Kcryss]

Wow, very interesting! Thanks for posting!

 

[KiwiMoose]

@Gaisy59 - it looks like the only surfactant in that shampoo bar is sodium coco sulfate. Here is an article about that - but bear in mind that it's written in favour of more natural ingredients, so they might be a bit scathing: https://www.hebebotanicals.co.nz/sodium-coco-sulfate-another-synthetic-detergent/
Even so - I would have thought a single surfactant is not ideal. It's usually recommended to use more than one to increase mildness.

 

[KiwiMoose]

And here's a counter-argument from Lush: https://nz.lush.com/article/dont-stress-about-sls

This I find useful as an overview of ingredients: https://www.humblebeeandme.com/surf...12Ite0tcpP9hgt_OxBtBsL38QgijiYGs5byKVKExiEGL8

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I like the idea of a homemade syndet shampoo bar, but it seems past my capabilities for now. @KiwiMoose I look forward to reading about how your testing and development go and learning from you.

 

[Dahila]

KM have you check the ph of shampoo? I wash my hair twice a week so after a month I know if it is good or not for my hair, My sweet granddaughter is also testing them and she likes it, Hubby likes it but you know men they like everything

 

[Deb Walker]

I didn't learn to make all-natural bath & body products to use chemicals on my hair & body. Using less plastic is an added benefit!

Soap has chemicals too, you know. And lye isn't all natural.

A person saying they don't want chemicals is just the short version of saying, they don't want chemicals that are associated with or shown to be carcinogenic, neurotoxic, immune suppressant etc.
I am unaware of lye fitting into the toxic category when used for soap.

Many people are suffering chronic health issues and are just trying their best to reduce the toxic chemical load to improve their health, so its OK for someone to say they don't want the chemicals. And its OK for people wanting to improve the wrappers for the health of the planet.

I'm interested in hearing what others do, even if I don't do it. I have never seen anyone have a problem washing their hair with soap (long and uncut) but I am interested in hairing )) about those who have had problems.

Its all good.

 

[Gaisy59]

@Gaisy59 - it looks like the only surfactant in that shampoo bar is sodium coco sulfate. Here is an article about that - but bear in mind that it's written in favour of more natural ingredients, so they might be a bit scathing: https://www.hebebotanicals.co.nz/sodium-coco-sulfate-another-synthetic-detergent/
Even so - I would have thought a single surfactant is not ideal. It's usually recommended to use more than one to increase mildness.

Hiya KiwiMoose, yes I saw the ingredients and I questioned whether or not they included all ingredients or if that was actually all they put into their bars. But my main reason for buying this bar was to see if I actually liked a shampoo bar and I sure do! So I set out to formulate my own which I did with help from the forum and am now waiting for my supplies. But I do like the direction your formulation is going.

Also, your friend that thought it was drying for her hair...I am wondering if she has curly hair which requires more moisture.

 

[Quilter99755]

I am one of those people who uses my soap for shampoo. I have very short curly hair and have had no problems with it. But this thread has got me thinking a bit differently about the syndet bars. I guess my first step will have to be buying one to test it out. I do know that I cannot deal with sulfates, which is why I started using my own bar soap in the first place. I have read several of the sites that you have linked, but chemistry was not my best subject in school...my eyes sort of glaze over and it becomes a clear senior moment. I'd love to have a tried recipe, especially from people I converse with rather than some website that I don't know. So yes, if you could pass the recipe Kiwi Moose, it would get me started down another path....and I would sure appreciate it.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Hiya KiwiMoose, yes I saw the ingredients and I questioned whether or not they included all ingredients or if that was actually all they put into their bars. But my main reason for buying this bar was to see if I actually liked a shampoo bar and I sure do! So I set out to formulate my own which I did with help from the forum and am now waiting for my supplies. But I do like the direction your formulation is going.

Also, your friend that thought it was drying for her hair...I am wondering if she has curly hair which requires more moisture.

Yes she does have curly hair! And my other friend who is also testing it doesn't. I asked her ( the second one) how her shampoo bar was going in light of the first tester's info. She said hers was fine and she's had no problems. So maybe that's it?
Now I'm wondering what to to include to make it better for her... more shea? A 'specialty' oil of some kind?

 

[KiwiMoose]

I am one of those people who uses my soap for shampoo. I have very short curly hair and have had no problems with it. But this thread has got me thinking a bit differently about the syndet bars. I guess my first step will have to be buying one to test it out. I do know that I cannot deal with sulfates, which is why I started using my own bar soap in the first place. I have read several of the sites that you have linked, but chemistry was not my best subject in school...my eyes sort of glaze over and it becomes a clear senior moment. I'd love to have a tried recipe, especially from people I converse with rather than some website that I don't know. So yes, if you could pass the recipe Kiwi Moose, it would get me started down another path....and I would sure appreciate it.

Hi Quilter - I've just started a new link under recipes: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/syndet-shampoo-bar-trials.77482/

 

[AmandaLRF]

If i am not mistaken Katie bought that recipe and does not share it (or maybe thats the bathbomb video?)

She did, but she shared where you can get the recipe. While I haven’t bought the books, yet, I saw a preview of them and they really go into the science of making shampoo bars and conditioner bars and has several recipes. Shampoo bars will be my project for next year and I plan to buy the books then.