Shampoo Bar

[LadySarah370]

So I made a shampoo bar on sunday...Its still soft!!

Olive Oil 40%
Avacado 30%
Castor 10%
Shea Butter 10%
Canola 10%

Did 5% Super Fat and did .6 oz of Tee tree, lavender and peppermint.

This was a recipe that I found on the forum but forgot to change the water % to oils to 35%

I also added 1 TBSP of sugar.

 

[cmzaha]

Sorry it is not a Shampoo bar but "Soap", which is not good for hair. With the higher amount of OO the soap can stay soft for a day or so. After a good cure it would be a good facial bar

 

[RobinRogers]

Sorry it is not a Shampoo bar but "Soap", which is not good for hair. With the higher amount of OO the soap can stay soft for a day or so. After a good cure it would be a good facial bar

I am interested in making a good shampoo bar. Does anyone have a decent recipe they would like to share?

 

[soapmaker]

I am interested in making a good shampoo bar. Does anyone have a decent recipe they would like to share?

Some on this forum don't approve of "hair soap" but recommend a syndet bar. Perhaps that would be a good place to search.

 

[LadySarah370]

This was a recipe I got off of the forum...hmm..

Screenshot of recipe

 

[Obsidian]

This was a recipe I got off of the forum...hmm..

For a good long while that was a very popular recipe on the forum and a lot of people were using it. Then the damage started and people realized the high PH could be really bad for hair.

I used it for 2 years, loved the thickness and curl it brought out in my hair. What I didn't realize is it was damage building up.

Eventually it started breaking off in chunks and I had to shave my shoulder length hair.

Some people can use lye soap with good results but not many. If you have a pixie then it would work well too since the hair will be cut before damage can appear.

For anyone trying a soap bar on hair, just be really careful. If your hair feels weird, dry, crunchy or get more curls, stop using it.

 

[LadySarah370]

Bummer! Is there a shampoo bar recipe that is ok that doesn't have auch a high ph?

 

[DeeAnna]

Bummer! Is there a shampoo bar recipe that is ok that doesn't have auch a high ph?

If you mean a true soap, meaning the stuff made with lye, the answer is no. All lye-based soap has a pH of around 9-11, and no blend of fats you can think of will change that fact.

That's why many of us recommend a shampoo bar that is based on synthetic detergents, not (lye based) soap, because the right syndet blend can have a neutral to acidic pH and won't be as likely to damage hair.

You're going to see people who have the opposite viewpoint about soap-as-shampoo -- Zany is one. You'll need to listen to both sides and make up your own mind on this matter. But regardless of who says what about soap being used as shampoo, the fact remains that soap naturally has an alkaline pH. You need to take that fact into account when deciding whether to use soap on your hair.

 

[shunt2011]

Screenshot of recipe

It is listed as a shampoo bar but it's really not. I make that recipe without the soy (I sub sunflower or lard) and it makes a great gentle body bar.

 

[Steven]

@LadySarah370 Don't fret though, many folks said it was a nice gentle bar of soap they loved to use in the shower (just not for hair)!

It sounds like you may be on to this already but I've also found that adjusting my lye concentration (from the default water as a % of oils on soapcalc) has made a difference in how soft my bars are out of the gate. Also lye concentration and ratio make way more sense to me than water as a percent of oils.

@DeeAnna shared a nice PDF that talks about lye concentration post #58 https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/geek-tips.57129/page-3#post-735797. There is some additional info on that thread that I found very helpful as well as her website - https://classicbells.com/soap/soapystuff.html. So awesome!

One other thing that was interesting to me was that I've read about folks adjusting the lye concentration based on the saturated/unsaturated fat ratio.
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/thr...concentration-of-your-soap.56745/#post-551775

I made a bar similar to yours but I added a small amount of CO for hardness and a little bit of cleansing. Turned out great!

 

[DeeAnna]

The last link that Steven provided is to a chart created by Roberto Akira, a really competent soapmaker and retired chemist. I agree with a lot of what Roberto Akira has to say on the subject of soap making, and his website, including this chart, is well worth reading.

I think the chart is more complicated than it needs to be, however. It won't hurt to follow the recommendations of lye concentration vs. saturated/unsaturated fatty acids that you see in the chart, but it won't necessarily help a lot either. I use different lye concentrations depending on the types of fats, but I manage to do just fine with about 3 different lye concentrations --

28% for high lauric-myristic recipes (very high in saturated fat)
33% for most soap recipes (moderate saturated fat) <-- this is the lye concentration I use almost all the time
40% for high oleic recipes (very low in saturated fat)

I also don't like to see that Mr. Akira made distinction between lye concentrations for beginners versus those for experienced soap makers. This is perpetuating a myth that more concentrated alkali solutions are somehow not suitable for beginners, and that's simply not true. Ignore that bit and look instead at his recommendations for swirls and multi-layer soaps as well as for fragrances that accelerate (EO/Additives Accel).

 

[Steven]

@DeeAnna Very helpful Context. I've wondered about those beg/exp rows! I just assumed it was a poor way of saying that higher lye concentration can be more complicated on various levels. ::shrug::

To your point, I consider myself a beginner and I just made soap the other day with a 35% lye concentration and it turned out (mostly) great and I never felt out of my league at all. So I definitely take issue with those rows.

 

[RobinRogers]

@DeeAnna Very helpful Context. I've wondered about those beg/exp rows! I just assumed it was a poor way of saying that higher lye concentration can be more complicated on various levels. ::shrug::

To your point, I consider myself a beginner and I just made soap the other day with a 35% lye concentration and it turned out (mostly) great and I never felt out of my league at all. So I definitely take issue with those rows.

I also use 35% lye solution but wondering if that is too high for shampoo???

 

[Andrew]

Shampoo bars are hard to formulate. There are a lot of issues you have to overcome with the recipe. Basically, it has to be hard to not gum up in the hair, effectively clean, not strip the hair, and at the same time not leave a residue. Many shampoo bars are slightly modified hand bar soaps and this - to me - looks like one.

I would replace the avocado oil with some amount of kokum or cocoa butter and go from there. Ultimately you will have to find a recipe that works for you.

The lower the lye solution, the longer the soap will stay in the mold and cure. I soap at a 50% solution, but that is quite difficult and can lead to issues. Saponification happens faster and the loaf heats up more. I would think 35%-40% is a great place to start.

A lot of people do not like shampoo bar soaps because of their pH. Everyone's hair is different and that is yet another reason why formulation is difficult. I lather mine up and rinse it right out with no issues to the hair. Actually, it makes my hair softer and completely fixed my dandruff issues. Many people use a detergent bar specifically because of pH issues and that may be the way for you to go but those were the cause my my skin issues.

 

[RobinRogers]

Shampoo bars are hard to formulate. There are a lot of issues you have to overcome with the recipe. Basically, it has to be hard to not gum up in the hair, effectively clean, not strip the hair, and at the same time not leave a residue. Many shampoo bars are slightly modified hand bar soaps and this - to me - looks like one.

I would replace the avocado oil with some amount of kokum or cocoa butter and go from there. Ultimately you will have to find a recipe that works for you.

The lower the lye solution, the longer the soap will stay in the mold and cure. I soap at a 50% solution, but that is quite difficult and can lead to issues. Saponification happens faster and the loaf heats up more. I would think 35%-40% is a great place to start.

A lot of people do not like shampoo bar soaps because of their pH. Everyone's hair is different and that is yet another reason why formulation is difficult. I lather mine up and rinse it right out with no issues to the hair. Actually, it makes my hair softer and completely fixed my dandruff issues. Many people use a detergent bar specifically because of pH issues and that may be the way for you to go but those were the cause my my skin issues.

I don’t really have skin issues but oily hair. I thought I’d give it a try. I don’t sell soap, just a New by hobbyist.

 

[Andrew]

I really like soaping 101. Here is her shampoo bar video:

 

[DeeAnna]

I also use 35% lye solution but wondering if that is too high for shampoo???

Not quite sure what you mean by this. Sometimes people think the amount of lye (NaOH) changes as the lye concentration changes. Is that possibly what you're thinking? If so, it's only the water amount that changes when the lye concentration is changed -- the alkali (NaOH) weight and the fat weight stay the same.

Lye concentration affects how much water you use in proportion to the alkali. More or less water in the recipe might affect the softness of the soap at the time of unmolding or it might affect how quickly the soap comes to trace ... but it won't affect the properties of the soap itself.

...I've wondered about those beg/exp rows! I just assumed it was a poor way of saying that higher lye concentration can be more complicated on various levels....

It isn't necessarily any more complicated to use a higher lye concentration than a lower one. In fact, beginning soapers often get into trouble because many beginners use recipes that call for too much water in proportion to the alkali.

The beginner forum has a lot of posts from beginners who complain their soap is way too soft for days or that it separated in the mold or has "glycerin rivers". Those symptoms are often (not always, but often) signs of too much water for that particular recipe.

I think a 33% lye concentration, give or take a percent or two, is quite fine for most soapers, beginners and experienced. If I had to pick just one lye concentration to use for any soap I might want to make, around 33% would be my choice.

 

[RobinRogers]

Not quite sure what you mean by this. Sometimes people think the amount of lye (NaOH) changes as the lye concentration changes. Is that possibly what you're thinking? If so, it's only the water amount that changes when the lye concentration is changed -- the alkali (NaOH) weight and the fat weight stay the same.

Lye concentration affects how much water you use in proportion to the alkali. More or less water in the recipe might affect the softness of the soap at the time of unmolding or it might affect how quickly the soap comes to trace ... but it won't affect the properties of the soap itself.

When I use soap Calc, I set it so my water to lye is 35% lye.

 

[Steven]

It isn't necessarily any more complicated to use a higher lye concentration than a lower one. In fact, beginning soapers often get into trouble because many beginners use recipes that call for too much water in proportion to the alkali.

The beginner forum has a lot of posts from beginners who complain their soap is way too soft for days or that it separated in the mold or has "glycerin rivers". Those symptoms are often (not always, but often) signs of too much water for that particular recipe.

I think a 33% lye concentration, give or take a percent or two, is quite fine for most soapers, beginners and experienced. If I had to pick just one lye concentration to use for any soap I might want to make, around 33% would be my choice.

So true! I definitely fell into that category with the soapcalc default of 38% for water as a percent of fats - it was super mushy. The bar turned out fine but it took a while. I thought it was a bad recipe, turns out 45 OO, 25 CO, and 25 PO, 5 Castor is actually a nice bar.

 

[DeeAnna]

When I use soap Calc, I set it so my water to lye is 35% lye.

SoapCalc has three choices -- the water:lye ratio as a plain number (3, 1.6, etc.), and lye concentration (as a percentage), and "water as % of fat" (also as a percentage). I haven't seen "water to lye" as a setting. I'm guessing you mean lye concentration? But I'm not sure. People confuse lye concentration with "water as % of fat" because they're both expressed as percentages.

Anyways, I still don't understand your concern about your choice of 35% as being "too high for shampoo." Can you explain that, please?