Shampoo Bar

[Katrax]

I made a batch of shampoo bars 3 weeks ago. Today, although it is only been 3 weeks of curing, I wanted to try a small piece. It smells awesome but my hair was so tangly (even after doing an apple cider vinegar rinse) and when I tried to blow dry it, it was like straw but with a weird film. Kind of greasy looking on top but straw like elsewhere.
The recipe was 5.3 almond oil, 1.3 beeswax, 4oz castor, 4oz cocoa butter, 9.4 coconut oil, 6.72 olive oil, 6.72 palm, 2oz shea butter and 3.36 wheatgerm oil - also 1tsp silk powder and 1tbsp green tea powder.
A) is it the recipe?
B) does it just need to cure longer?
c) maybe the apple cidar vinegar rinse?
My hair is normal .. not dry or greasy ever. I was trying to make a natural bar to get away from all the SLS in regular shampoos and I've tried some organic SLS free shampoos and they also leave my hair feeling like straw. Not sure if there is such a thing as a good shampoo bar. Help .. please

 

[Susie]

OK, first, congratulations on the first shampoo bars!

Now, a couple of things that are not direct answers. But they are important, so bear with me.

First, there is this lovely transition stage we call Funky Hair Syndrome(FHS for short). It is when you are transitioning from commercial hair products that are full of synthetic detergents and silicon based products to soap based products. I have read complaints that vary from straw to greasy/gunky. They are all part of the process. It does get better. My personal solution was to keep washing until the gunk went away. Took about 7 shampoos all in a row, but it worked.


Now onto your questions:

1. Your recipe is really heavy in butters. This will negatively affect your lather, but different strokes for different folks. You also did not say how much superfat, so that part is difficult to judge. What were you hoping to achieve with that recipe? Why those butters and oils? When you answer those, we can better talk about your recipe. Because what I like for me may totally not work for you.

2. Yes, it needs to cure a bit longer. You will probably see quite a difference if you give it a couple more weeks.

3. Apple Cider Vinegar/white vinegar/citric acid is used as a rinse to lay down the cuticle of the hair shaft and reduce the "straw" feeling. But right now you are going through FHS, so it is hard to say exactly which is the cause at this stage. I would, indeed, try the vinegar/water rinse (or citric acid/water rinse if the smell offends you) to lay that cuticle down.

I love my shampoo bars, but sometimes I cheat on them with an SLS free shampoo made by the same people that make the conditioner I use. I do that especially if I have just gotten my hair cut and forgot to bring my own shampoo or shampoo bar to the beauty salon. Takes 5 washes to get those other products out of my hair.

 

[Obsidian]

The beeswax wasn't needed at all, I can imagine all it does it leave a waxy film on the hair. The amount of butters can also leave a film and your cleansing numbers are way high. Most shampoo bars are around 0-5 for a cleansing number, my newest recipe is 7 cleansing and I would never go any higher.

My recipe normally called for 10% shea but I found it draggy and I often had to wash 2-3 times, my new recipe replaced it with lard and after just a couple days, its already a better bar.
Shampoo bars are formulated quite different from a bath bar, personally I would try a different formula and use the bars you have now in the shower. This is my recipe, you can replace the lard with palm or shea. superfat at 3%-5%, I like 3%

Olive oil 40%
Avocado 30%
lard 10%
coconut 10%
castor 10%

 

[Katrax]

Thanks Susie, I was affraid you might say that about the grin and bare until your hair gets the junk out. It felt so awful, don't know how long a could bare .. with a grin that is I think I did a 5% super fat. I found the recipe online. The bars look and smell amazing - did a peppermint and patchouli EO in them but they don't lather well. I just read somewhere today that hot process shampoo bars are better than CP ones? Not sure of that is true or just better because of shorter curing time. I've never really hot processed. Again, thanks for all your feedback.

 

[Katrax]

The beeswax wasn't needed at all, I can imagine all it does it leave a waxy film on the hair. The amount of butters can also leave a film and your cleansing numbers are way high. Most shampoo bars are around 0-5 for a cleansing number, my newest recipe is 7 cleansing and I would never go any higher. It certainly did leave a waxy film on my hair at the roots yet the ends felt like straw. I raced back into the shower and washed it with pantene.

My recipe normally called for 10% shea but I found it draggy and I often had to wash 2-3 times, my new recipe replaced it with lard and after just a couple days, its already a better bar.
Shampoo bars are formulated quite different from a bath bar, personally I would try a different formula and use the bars you have now in the shower. These do not lather well but will be a nice conditioning body bar.
This is my recipe, you can replace the lard with palm or shea. superfat at 3%-5%, I like 3%

Olive oil 40%
Avocado 30%
lard 10%
coconut 10%
castor 10%

Thank you so much for sharing a recipe, I will give this one a try, and thanks for all your input. Learning is fun, especially when it works.

 

[Obsidian]

I don't notice HP being better for shampoo bars and they still need to be cured just like CP.

 

[smeetree]

I've never made a shampoo bar (how well do they work?)...I was going to try one. What do you think of this formula?

24% Coconut
50% Olive
13% Palm
10% Sweet almond oil
2% Castor
1% Argon oil

What I am hoping for is cleansing and conditioning in one bar, plus some oils like almond and argon known for hair care. I read that gooseberry is excellent for hair, too, but I have never used it in a soap so not sure about that one.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Based on the advice given above, I would say that your cleansing is too high.

 

[Susie]

I've never made a shampoo bar (how well do they work?)...I was going to try one. What do you think of this formula?

24% Coconut
50% Olive
13% Palm
10% Sweet almond oil
2% Castor
1% Argon oil

What I am hoping for is cleansing and conditioning in one bar, plus some oils like almond and argon known for hair care. I read that gooseberry is excellent for hair, too, but I have never used it in a soap so not sure about that one.

You will have to try it to see for yourself. You may love it.
I have noticed that all recipes you give are higher in coconut than I would use, so I am guessing you have a reason.

I would not love that recipe. I don't like that high of a cleansing number, especially on my hair. But, I have dry hair. So I need a really low cleansing number, and high conditioning.

For my own use, I would do more like this:

Superfat 8%
CO 12%
OO 30%
Lard/Palm/Tallow 48%
Castor oil 5%
Jojoba 5%

 

[Seawolfe]

And just to throw in the other side of the argument - I like to shampoo with salt bars that are 80% coconut oil with 20% superfat, but I have a grubby job and I get horrible things in my hair. Though if my hair doesn't need super cleaning I do like a low cleansing / high superfat formulation like Susie posted. I don't think that real soap shampoo bars are a 1 recipe fits all kinda thing.

Some things I found that helped in the switch over process: 1) Lather up like you're in a shampoo commercial 2) early in the switch over game it helps to lather/rinse/repeat a few times, especially on the roots.

 

[Susie]

That's exactly why I say this is what I like, not this is the "only" way or the "right" way. Each of us has different skin/hair needs and preferences. I always love it when people say they prefer different formulations, because then folks get a wider view than just one person.

 

[Saponista]

You could try washing with a detergent based shampoo first to get all the gunk out. Something mild that doesn't contain silicone or waxes. I found johnsons baby shampoo did the trick.

 

[judymoody]

There is a huge shampoo bar thread (like 25+ pages) here on this forum that should be easy to find if you search. I believe that the moral of the thread was to avoid use of coconut oil in shampoo bars and it yielded much better results. I also agree on cutting beeswax and butters.

For what it's worth, I could never get past gunky straw hair syndrome and shifted to making my own shampoo bars from mild surfactants. They worked better for me. But to each his own.

 

[smeetree]

You will have to try it to see for yourself. You may love it.
I have noticed that all recipes you give are higher in coconut than I would use, so I am guessing you have a reason.

I would not love that recipe. I don't like that high of a cleansing number, especially on my hair. But, I have dry hair. So I need a really low cleansing number, and high conditioning.

For my own use, I would do more like this:

Superfat 8%
CO 12%
OO 30%
Lard/Palm/Tallow 48%
Castor oil 5%
Jojoba 5%

I'm italian with naturally oily hair, that's the only reason. I thought the coconut would cut through the oil. I will reconsider after the input. thanks

 

[smeetree]

Do you guys think this would be a good oil for a shampoo bar?

http://www.newyorksoapmakingsupplies.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=60&product_id=298

It claims to be great for hair and grey hair (I am getting a lot!)

I don't see it listed on any soap calculators, though.

 

[DeeAnna]

Use it in a conditioner, Smee. Quite frankly, the exotics are going to be wasted in soap.

Furthermore, you asked in another thread about the sap value of this product, and a quick read of the product listing clearly shows it's an infusion of the berry in oil, not a pure oil. The carrier is sesame, so that's what you'd use for the sap value.

 

[smeetree]

Use it in a conditioner, Smee. Quite frankly, the exotics are going to be wasted in soap.

Thanks.

Do you have a conditioner recipe?

 

[smeetree]

infusion of the berry in oil, not a pure oil.

I missed that. Thank you.

 

[Susie]

I'm italian with naturally oily hair, that's the only reason. I thought the coconut would cut through the oil. I will reconsider after the input. thanks

That would be a valid reason to want more coconut oil in a shampoo bar. I have very dry hair that is naturally curly and extremely prone to frizzy-ness, so more conditioning is my friend.

You need to make your shampoo bar for your hair. Not try to use a recipe intended for dry hair. But, I think I would start with no more than 20% CO to get an idea of what that gives you before going higher. I think you will be surprised at how cleansing that is on hair.

 

[Saponista]

I have greasy hair and make bars with 20% CO and 5% castor to get a bubbly lather. I find that cuts through the grease fine.