Shampoo Bar gone bad

[ilovebathing]

Hi All,

I had to repost the following since I put it on the thread of the what soapy mistakes have you made today?


I wanted to use Neem Oil and also an egg for my experimental batch of Shampoo Bar. Luckily, I only made 18 oz worth of oil versus a 32 oz. Not sure what went wrong with the recipe, but it was super soft on some spots. The in the pot swirl design looked odd, white polka dottish and transparent spots on some. I wanted a yellow gold/white swirls, but it was not what I envisioned. I used
5% Castor
10%Cocoa butter
10% coconut Oil
2% Jojoba
5% Neem
26% Olive
10% Palm Kernel Oil
20% Sunflower HO
2% Stearic Acid
10% SheA Butter
colorants Annato, TD, EO Tea Tree, Sweet ORange, and Rosemary
Vitamin E 4 drops

Perhaps it was the sulfur from the eggs since I used the whites as well, or I checked out my Coconut Oil and it was yellow (gone rancid?) It was Nutiva brand that I got at costco.

So if anyone here can suggest what to do next, I would greatly appreciate any suggestions.

thanks all!

 

[ilovebathing]

To add, I'm sorry I don't have pictures to share on what it looked like as I was so disgusted by the outcome and threw it in the trashbin.
194 Grams of water and 70g of lye 4% superfat.

 

[Seawolfe]

Off the top of my head I the white spots sound like stearic spots which can come from the stearic acid, the shea butter and also the cocoa butter. No idea what a whole egg does to soap, but I know that the stearic acid and hard butters need to be pretty hot to keep fluid so I wonder if the egg didn't get cooked in there or something. Im not sure what egg can bring to the table since it's a wash off product? It's odd for coconut oil to go rancid - did it smell funny?

Not that you asked, but I think you will be disappointed with a lye-based shampoo bar (but they do make nice gentle facial bars). The hair experts in here say that NaOH based soaps can really damage your hair over time and I believe them. I much prefer the synthetic detergent shampoo bars like the one over on swiftycraftymonkey.com

 

[Millie]

Pictures would help! The funny look sounds like harmless glycerine rivers. I'm actually quite fond of those How did you add your egg? Can you be more specific about the soft spots? Without a bar on hand to test though, there isn't much you can do but review your notes, ask specific questions if you aren't sure about something, and try again. Save your next batch! Also give your coconut oil a good sniff.

Soap for hair is a bit controversial on the forum - many have lost their long locks to it, others still use it. Had ta let ya know just in case :twisted:

 

[Obsidian]

Yes, pictures definitely help when it comes to diagnosing problems. I can say that I wouldn't use that formula on my hair, with so many butters and the jojoba, I can imagine it would leave a lot of film on the hair.
This is the recipe I used to use, it was quite nice but the high PH eventually ruined my hair so I went back to shampoo.

http://www.evernote.com/l/ANi0chvOL_5PbJrp3vjvBfXtKCUp6FlLEsg/

 

[cherrycoke216]

Ditto all of above.
Maybe transparent part was chalaza of the egg? And whitish spot the stearic acid spot.
If you want to add egg, remember to sieve it so the chalaza and membrane got filter out. And hand whip it with some oil and add it back to the big oil pot.
If soap shampoo works for you, then congrats. But lots of people have failed. Just a FYI.

 

[ilovebathing]

Hello Everyone,
Thanks again for the great feedback on this. I researched some more and some youtube videos show using egg yolk or all the egg. I used the entire egg with the whites- YIKES!! Another website I read was -
http://www.soap-making-resource.com/shampoo-bar-recipe.html

I tempered the egg as most people recommended to do this, so I did. And noticed that stearic acid takes lots of practice and getting use to. After attempting to make this bar, I don't feel compelled to try again. Though, now I enjoy farm fresh eggs again since this is what I used. Again, my apologies for not taking pictures, but I did find the bar with a funny smell that I don't think was great (perhaps the whites produced the sulfur smell as it might have). With this experiment, now I find myself thinking that somethings remain simple for a reason versus adding so many butters etc. But I heard shea butter works good for hair. But hair products by far to me seem a bit more complex to solve than skin?

 

[dixiedragon]

Never made egg soap so I have no advice there. But regarding the yellow coconut oil - was it white when you opened the container? ANd then turned yellow? If you opened the sealed container and it was already yellow, it may be colored popcorn oil. Read the ingredients to see if it has beta carotene in it.

 

[cmzaha]

I only use powdered whole eggs in soap and find all it adds is a silky feeling same as using silk in soap. BTW you were making Soap not Shampoo. Shampoo bars are what are called syndet and are made with surfactants, not lye soap. If you love your hair do not use soap as a regular cleaner on your hair

 

[DeeAnna]

I don't see anything wrong with using whole egg -- or just the white or just the yolk. But I can see if you had to soap hotter than usual to deal with the stearic acid, that you might get some odd results. I keep my egg soap batter a bit on the cooler side of my usual 95-120 F temp range.

My notes from my last batch:
-- I use the whole egg, 1 egg per pound (500 grams) of oils, but you could use just the yolks or just the whites as you prefer. I don't necessarily bring the eggs to room temp -- I just stick blend them separately until smooth. Strain into the room temp oils to catch any possible solid bits. Stick blend a few seconds to bring the eggs and fat to a consistent temp. Add lye solution and proceed as normal. This method has been working well for me so far. I've caught a small whiff of odor during the soap making, but no weird colors or lingering odors that other soapers sometimes mention. Texture of the egg-soap bar is just as smooth as my other recipes. Initial soap batter temp 98 F (38 C).

It's the yolk, by the way, that has the sulfur compounds, not the white.

"... But hair products by far to me seem a bit more complex to solve than skin? ..."

With respect, using soap on hair is not a terribly complex problem. I don't use it. I learned the hard way that it doesn't work.

No matter how many "nourishing" ingredients is in the recipe, a true lye-based soap is very hard on hair due to the alkalinity of this type of cleanser. The damage isn't always apparent right away, but it definitely accumulates over time. Some people's hair might be tolerant of this, but mine and my DH's are not. I cut off a year's growth of hair to start repairing the damage.

 

[cherrycoke216]

Just want to add that next time, don't throw it into trash bin. 99% of botched soap is salvageable.

 

[ilovebathing]

My notes from my last batch:
-- I use the whole egg, 1 egg per pound (500 grams) of oils, but you could use just the yolks or just the whites as you prefer. I don't necessarily bring the eggs to room temp -- I just stick blend them separately until smooth. Strain into the room temp oils to catch any possible solid bits. Stick blend a few seconds to bring the eggs and fat to a consistent temp. Add lye solution and proceed as normal. This method has been working well for me so far. I've caught a small whiff of odor during the soap making, but no weird colors or lingering odors that other soapers sometimes mention. Texture of the egg-soap bar is just as smooth as my other recipes. Initial soap batter temp 98 F (38 C).

DeeAnna, thanks so much for looking into your notes. I believe it's best to have them fairly in the same temperature since it is very possible to cook the egg like poach eggs, though it did not happen to me. Btw, from what I can read you are very well into the chemistry of soapmaking - appreciate your expertise in this issue of mine.

Dixie Dragon - It was white when I opened the new container of Nutiva and after 3 rd time opening the bucket- I noticed it like popcorn color butter like. No smell, but I ended up returning it to good ole Costco (with full reimbursement).

 

[Obsidian]

I've used egg yolk in soap before, seemed to make the lather a bit creamier. Whites gross me out so I stuck with just the yolk. I smooshed it through a sieve to remove the membrane then tempered it with warm olive oil, once it was tempered, I mixed into all the oils then soaped as normal.
The soap was a bit odd colored but I don't remember any sulfur scent. I used 1 yolk PPO.

Yes, formulating hair products can be much different then formulating skin products. Shea butter can be great for hair but you have to remember that oils in soap aren't the same as the straight oil. If you are sure you want to use soap on your hair, you need a gentle recipe that rinses clean.
Did you see the recipe I posted? It really is a nice gentle recipe and if you end up not liking it for hair, it makes a great facial soap.

 

[cmzaha]

To add, I'm sorry I don't have pictures to share on what it looked like as I was so disgusted by the outcome and threw it in the trashbin.
194 Grams of water and 70g of lye 4% superfat.

Sad you threw it away with so many expensive oils. It could have been saved and would have made a nice facial bar. Very few botched batches cannot be saved

 

[ilovebathing]

Obsidian, thanks for the recipe and egg idea of using yolk. I find it quite intriguing with the percentages you used for CO and the other oils listed. I've been using what I think were good suggestions from Kendra from Modern Soapmaking but her products are for body soap bars. Ahhh I see now --> light bulb

 

[Obsidian]

You're welcome. I can't take credit for the recipe, I got it from post one in this huge shampoo bar thread http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=30946 I did tweak it a bit to add in CO and neem, it was a bit too gentle originally.

That thread is incredibly long but really worth reading if you are interested in trying shampoo bars.

 

[ilovebathing]

Just an update on this Obsidian, I have attached my notes on the shampoo bar experiment I made last night 9/18/17. I was quite conservative in using the castor oil to 10% so I put it for 7%. And also used 1/2 of the egg yolk since it is for a 12 oz batch. See attached SoapCalc print out and my notes.

View attachment Shampoo Bar experiment.pdf