Separation or?

[Obsidian]

I had something unexpected when making a test batch today. It was 100% HO safflower oil with dual lye.
I mixed the oils and lyes together like normal, hit it with the SB and it went to trace almost immediately.

I wanted to make sure it was well mixed so I kept mixing it. It never got thicker but seemed to be in medium trace so I started to pour it.

I got two cavities poured before it thinned back out and got a slight grainy look to it. I poured the batter in the molds back into the bowl and blended more, it went very thick then and took on a beautiful creamy texture.

Poured it again and so far, so good. I'm pretty sure it was separation but why did it get thick so fast? liquid oil shouldn't have false trace and it has no scent, color or other additives.

 

[kchaystack]

What was your lye concentration? Was it unsented? This sounds like ricing.

 

[Obsidian]

2:1 water:lye and no scent. It wasn't ricing, the little grainy looking bits were much smaller and not solid.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I had something similar happen when I made no-cook liquid paste that was high in HO safflower. (Mine was all KOH, rather than dual.) It separated as you describe a few times and I had to keep SBing it again. The final time I turned straight to paste. Everything turned out fine eventually, though.

I've seen something similar in a balanced soap that sits and rests (maybe while you're coloring a different part) and gets grainy looking, but if you buzz it it gets smooth again. If I had to guess, I'd guess that what we're seeing is some fatty acids saponifying before others, and the chunks are "crystals" of a faster-acting type. Buzzing again breaks them up into a more homogeneous mixture - perhaps to act as nucleation points for the other types of soap.

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm going along with what BrewerGeorge said. I'd guess the safflower may have had a higher than usual % of free fatty acids. FFAs react quickly with alkali and the fats react slower. Saponification will race along quickly until all the FFAs are used up, then things will slow down when the alkali has nothing else to do except chew into the fats.

The grainy texture is a type of ricing, just not the extreme form that people see with naughty FOs.

 

[Obsidian]

Thanks george and deeanna for the explanation. I don't figure Ill even make this kind of soap again but its nice to know what the cause is.

 

[penelopejane]

So you don't think it had anything to do with the dual lye? I have problems with KOH dual lye. And Zany does too. It is strange stuff.

I'd be interested to know what it looks like when cut.

 

[Obsidian]

This is only my second batch of duel lye, I had no issues with the first batch. What kind of problems are you having? No cutting with this one, I used individual molds.

 

[penelopejane]

This is only my second batch of duel lye, I had no issues with the first batch. What kind of problems are you having? No cutting with this one, I used individual molds.

Blotches in the soap, brittle soap. Could be caused by any number of things but I think the KOH compounds the problem.
Could also be operator error.

 

[Obsidian]

Weird, my regular recipe with dual lye turned out perfect. Not brittle or spotty at all and it cut nicely.

 

[penelopejane]

I've made more than 15. Sometimes works fine but consistently doesnt. It's probably just me.

 

[Obsidian]

Going through my notes, I see I've made 3 batches of dual lye. Seems all of them have traced quicker than normal but only the one today separated.

I do keep my soaps pretty simple anymore, no additives except maybe aloe juice and one or two color in the pot swirl. FO's mostly, I don't care for how quickly most EO's fade.

I don't generally encourage gel but I don't actively try to stop it either. I cut as soon as physically possible, usually within 8 hours or so thanks to the high amount of lard I use. I don't use palm or butters.

I did end up CPOP the safflower batch, it looked like it was going to be really slow to set up. It gelled perfectly. I'm hoping for a castile replacement since I don't like OO.