Rice Milk in Bastile Soap @ 10 months

[Garden Gives Me Joy]

Here is the image of a 10-month old test soap I made for experimentation purposes using my Bastile recipe along with what I call my 'condensed' rice milk. No smell of rancidity, not even faint. While no mold growing on the soap, the place where one corner touched the container has a dark outline of the soap, supposedly of mold that formed where atmospheric moisture apparently collected.

The outside is soft and yellow. When this small 10g bar was cut, its center showed the original color.

What is responsible for the yellowing and softening?

ETA: Would a very hard PalmOlive type of recipe have better tolerated this level of excess? ... or did I just go too far? (BTW, I did a similar 'condensed milk with potato starch in a formulation w linoleic acid that exceeded the recommended 15%. I wrapped it. It had a faint rancid smell and its surface was oily, ie despite being wrapped. The potato starch case had a NaOH discount of 2.25%. Can the excess sugar somehow provoke rancidity? Does low water in soaps increase the likelihood of these types of problem?)

Here are some notes on this soap.

Experience using it: @ day 32. Very nice slip and creamy (this is precisely what I had hoped for). Cleaned very well.

Cold Processed. Properties & Fatty acids: 31H, 16CL, 68CO, 21BU, 19CR, 15LO, 12Lau, 4Myrist, 12Palm, 3Stear, 5Ricin, 52Oleic, 9Lin. Other: Cut well at 6hrs but 'malleable' at day 30.

• PKO @ 25%
• Castor @ 5%
• Pomace @ 70%
• Vitamin E - Oops! Forgot to add Vitamin E.
• Water @ 19.5% ppo. Replaced all water with very concentrated / 'condensed' DIY rice milk. BTW, NaOH dissolved easily into milk to form a paste that also proved very easy to handle afterwards. I figure the rice content exceeds the 2% carbs limit to a considerable extent. (Assuming that 2% is the safe limit. Correct me if I am wrong). Confession: I wanted to see the limits to which I can go in achieving a great sensorial use experience.
• NaOH discount @ 4%

 

[AliOop]

Sorry, I don't know the answer to your question, but I do have a question for you regarding the meaning of this statement:

"Water @ 19.5% ppo."

For CP soap, the amount of water is typically set in relation to the NaOH, and then expressed either as a lye percentage, or a water:lye ratio. There is also the old HP setting of "Water as a percent of oils" but that is typically set to 38% because it is based on the need for more water when making HP soap.

Did you use the "water as percent of oils" setting and change it to 19.5? If so, that is not "ppo" but total oil weight.

Sorry to be dense, but I do want to understand so I appreciate any help you can provide.

 

[Iluminameluna]

I have the same questions as @AliOop. I too plan to make a rice rinse water today but I'm also interested in making a potato soap for skin textural reasons. I'm curious in others' experiences in their process and the resulting soaps.

As for the rice milk, from my reading, it's very high in carbohydrates and so it should be frozen to prevent scorching (burning) when you add the lye. When you replace the water in which you'd normally dissolve the lye with a liquid that contains sugars, you run the risk of that liquid scorching. Like you would if you put that liquid in a pan on a stove to boil and forgot about it. That's why it's recommended to always either freeze milks into cubes, no matter their source, or at the very least have them as cold as possible before using them to dissolve the lye.

As for how much of that milk you used to dissolve the lye, I don't quite understand that either, so I'll just follow this thread because it's very interesting. I'm feeling quite dense too in that regard.

 

[Garden Gives Me Joy]

For CP soap, the amount of water is typically set in relation to the NaOH, and then expressed either as a lye percentage, or a water:lye ratio. There is also the old HP setting of "Water as a percent of oils" but that is typically set to 38% because it is based on the need for more water when making HP soap.

Did you use the "water as percent of oils" setting and change it to 19.5? If so, that is not "ppo" but total oil weight.

Thanks, I needed your message because I know errors like that can cause problems.

Sorry for the confusion!

The lye concentration was 41.5%. and the water : lye ratio was 1.4:1. The milk comprised all of the water in the recipe. To make the milk, I boiled rice, blended it when it was soft and then added only a little more water. I gather this is far more concentrated that rice water.

Re my saying "ppo", I really meant % of total base oils. (Bad habit!).

 

[Iluminameluna]

@Garden Gives Me Joy Something that occurred to me that I forgot to ask was what quantity of water to rice did you cook, and how much more water did you add afterwards to thin your "condensed milk"?
For instance, because I knew I'd be using the rinse water from my rice, I measured 4 cups of filtered water and added it. I ended up with just about 2 or 3 ozs les than a quart of rinse water. However I couldn't quantify the suspended starch. Some of it settled after 4 or 5 days and that amounted to 1 Tbs. I'll know in about 6 weeks how it affected the soap I made today.

 

[Garden Gives Me Joy]

Something that occurred to me that I forgot to ask was what quantity of water to rice did you cook, and how much more water did you add afterwards to thin your "condensed milk"?
For instance, because I knew I'd be using the rinse water from my rice, I measured 4 cups of filtered water and added it. I ended up with just about 2 or 3 ozs les than a quart of rinse water. However I couldn't quantify the suspended starch. Some of it settled after 4 or 5 days and that amounted to 1 Tbs. I'll know in about 6 weeks how it affected the soap I made today.

I got the idea from here.
https://naturopathiccontrol.blogspot.com/2021/07/creamy-rice-milk-diy.html
You mentioned the milk scorching. I actually did not freeze my milk. However, I did not immediately see this color. If the issue relates to scorching, won't the color change happen during the soap making process? This color change took several months.

I bet people will be very skeptical when they see this type of change. Pity because the soap feels great!

 

[AliOop]

That's interesting... I have never frozen my rice milk before soaping, and have had zero scorching problems to date. In fact, I have hot processed it, too.

 

[earlene]

I got the idea from here.
https://naturopathiccontrol.blogspot.com/2021/07/creamy-rice-milk-diy.html
You mentioned the milk scorching. I actually did not freeze my milk. However, I did not immediately see this color. If the issue relates to scorching, won't the color change happen during the soap making process? This color change took several months.

I bet people will be very skeptical when they see this type of change. Pity because the soap feels great!

I call that 'congee'. My rice congee is something that I've been making for over 20 years now, and the recipe comes from a book I have had for about that long (title mentioned in this post). (My process & yours is a bit different, though, as yours includes more of the pulp it sounds like. But mine is super gelatinous when refrigerated.) I refrigerate it of course, because it is for consumption & tend to make enough to last a few days.

And I have used in soap, but not frozen. I have not had it discolor when making the soap.

The double rice soap I made (Nov 2020) with lavender 40/42 (EO) & lavender colorant did have some teensy tiny spots that look a bit yellow, but I know lavender is notoriously linked to DOS, so it bears another look. I haven't looked lately, so I am not sure if I have any of it left, but I will definitely go take a look when my I am up again. I hate to disturb my cat when when she cuddles up for a long nap on my legs.

@Dawni mentions 'orange gummy spots' in this post on one of her Triple Rice Soap threads. She has not been around as much lately, but she may have some insight to share if she sees this.

Also, the maximum limit for foodstuffs in soap is another issue that may contribute. See this post in relation to the suggested maximum amount of foodstuff in soap. I doubt you could exceed the maximum of 1 part foodstuff to 8 parts of oil if you used only the rice milk as your foodstuff, but I mention it because it may pertain.

 

[Iluminameluna]

You mentioned the milk scorching.

I did because usually when I read "carbohydrates" I think "sugars" in some form. However, I've been reading through a lot of the threads about adding rice in some really creative ways, and no one has mentioned it needing to be cold or frozen. So, I'm retracting my comment, and my fear is allayed.
I'm about to join the rice bandwagon and make a batch with, this time, 2 parts of rice additives. Rice rinse water again, plus a rice congee as well. I can't wait!
Thanks, @Garden Gives Me Joy for sharing your experiences with us! You've inspired me!