Reprocess failed liquid soap paste

[aussieorchid]

Just wanted to get people's opinion on reprocessing a failed batch of liquid soap. The story: I made a small batch of liquid soap paste and I was informed the KOH was 98%, I was slightly doubtful of this but coming from a scientific background I know 98% KOH is around in Australia. Anyway new mix of oils so I made a 500g test batch

Olive oil 55%
Canola 20%
Coconut 15%
Castor oil 10%

50/50 water and glycerin

Ran it through soapcalc with a 2% Superfatting.

Long story short I think the KOH was more like 90% not 98 so the final paste has excess oil when I dissolved a small test sample and the water is milky white. There is no zap as I believe I did not have enough KOH and have ended up with approx 12% Superfatting.
I do like the final product and will make more with the correct lye concentration but can I add this batch of paste into the next batch of oils as I melt them and reprocess or should I bin it and cut my losses.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I made two slightly different pastes once and then just mixed them together before the dilution stage - no need to actually rebatch the paste back down, as paste is not like NaOH soap that can't really be mixed in any other way.

 

[aussieorchid]

I made two slightly different pastes once and then just mixed them together before the dilution stage - no need to actually rebatch the paste back down, as paste is not like NaOH soap that can't really be mixed in any other way.

The problem is my current batch of paste did not have enough KOH when I made it so has a lot of free un saponifed oil. If I mix with a new batch the free oil will effect that batch too.

 

[Susie]

You can do exactly what TEG said, using a batch with a negative 9-10% superfat(thereby lowering the superfat to the desired 2-3% superfat), or you can simply mix some KOH with water, and mix that in in about 5 gm increments until it clears up and looks right. I would do that in a slow cooker or stainless steel pot on the stove on low. It may take a while as you did not say how much you made of the other.

My biggest concern, however, is that you are not describing a typical too high superfat liquid soap. Typical too high superfat has a defined separate layer of fat floating on the top of clear liquid. You are actually describing more of a situation where the soap has unsaponifiables in the oil, which should not be the case using the oils you stated. If you could post pictures, and/or the recipe in weights(including the weight of the KOH and paste water, and then the amount of dilution water), it would help us help you better.

 

[fuzz-juzz]

Why don't you run recipe through calculator with 90% KOH and see what would be the difference? Would that work maybe?
Then add the difference diluted in glycerin and cook again. Add more liquid if necessary.
Where did you get your KOH from? I buy mine from Escentials of Aus and it's 90% pure, never had problem with it.

 

[aussieorchid]

You can do exactly what TEG said, using a batch with a negative 9-10% superfat(thereby lowering the superfat to the desired 2-3% superfat), or you can simply mix some KOH with water, and mix that in in about 5 gm increments until it clears up and looks right. I would do that in a slow cooker or stainless steel pot on the stove on low. It may take a while as you did not say how much you made of the other.

My biggest concern, however, is that you are not describing a typical too high superfat liquid soap. Typical too high superfat has a defined separate layer of fat floating on the top of clear liquid. You are actually describing more of a situation where the soap has unsaponifiables in the oil, which should not be the case using the oils you stated. If you could post pictures, and/or the recipe in weights(including the weight of the KOH and paste water, and then the amount of dilution water), it would help us help you better.

Exact recipe was
Canola 100g
Castor 50g
Coconut 75g
Olive oil 275g

KOH 97.4g
Water 190g I did a 50/50 water glycerin here.
I did 2% Superfatting figuring if the KOH was 98 I would still be under 5% total superfat.


I have not diluted all the paste only a small sample 50g paste in 100 ml water there was some free oil floating on the surface as well as the water being milky white. I did add a little extra KOH to this test sample and it did clear the water with a visible jelly soap layer on top. No picture sorry I binned this will mix another tomorrow and take pictures.

 

[aussieorchid]

Why don't you run recipe through calculator with 90% KOH and see what would be the difference? Would that work maybe?
Then add the difference diluted in glycerin and cook again. Add more liquid if necessary.
Where did you get your KOH from? I buy mine from Escentials of Aus and it's 90% pure, never had problem with it.

I am in Brisbane and purchased it locally due to shipping rules on this now. I am going to call the store tomorrow and double check the concentration I was told by the counter girl on Saturday.

Difference in KOH is 97.14g compared to 107.94g when I select 90%.

 

[fuzz-juzz]

So, if it's 90% pure and if you used some of the paste maybe use a little bit less, like a few flakes less than 10gr.
If paste is quite hard, and I imagine it would be. Maybe dilute all to a really thick soap and add extra lye. Let it sit (or cook), mix from time to time if oils tend to settle on top and see if that helps.
At this point you really have not much to lose except few grams of KOH.
Do you have any polysorbate 80? It emulsifies FOs into soap. If there's still some extra oils after added lye it might help too.
I got my KOH from Escentials only few months ago (via Aust Post), unless something changed in the meantime. Never had problems with it, got clear soap on the first try. I use Soapcalc with 1-2% SF.

 

[Susie]

"No picture sorry I binned this will mix another tomorrow and take pictures."

The first rule for new soapmakers is to NEVER, EVER, EVER toss any soap in the bin unless more than 2 of us tell you it is a lost cause with no other soapers saying you can save it. Reason? I learned more from the "fixing" of my oops soaps than I did any other way.

 

[DeeAnna]

Or .... <speaking vewy, vewy quietly behind my hand> ... don't admit it in public if you do trash some soap!

:mrgreen:

 

[aussieorchid]

So, if it's 90% pure and if you used some of the paste maybe use a little bit less, like a few flakes less than 10gr.
If paste is quite hard, and I imagine it would be. Maybe dilute all to a really thick soap and add extra lye. Let it sit (or cook), mix from time to time if oils tend to settle on top and see if that helps.
At this point you really have not much to lose except few grams of KOH.
Do you have any polysorbate 80? It emulsifies FOs into soap. If there's still some extra oils after added lye it might help too.
I got my KOH from Escentials only few months ago (via Aust Post), unless something changed in the meantime. Never had problems with it, got clear soap on the first try. I use Soapcalc with 1-2% SF.

Some places do ship but if you have a read of the Australia post guidlines
http://auspost.com.au/media/documents/Dangerous-and-prohibited-goods-guide-Dec2014.pdf

These chemicals should not be posted with the exception of a few if declared as chemicals and road freighted only. Hence I buy locally for KOH. Waiting on the vendor to reply to me today to confirm the concentration.

 

[aussieorchid]

"No picture sorry I binned this will mix another tomorrow and take pictures."

The first rule for new soapmakers is to NEVER, EVER, EVER toss any soap in the bin unless more than 2 of us tell you it is a lost cause with no other soapers saying you can save it. Reason? I learned more from the "fixing" of my oops soaps than I did any other way.

Just to clarify I did not bin the whole batch just the small sample I diluted and then added extra KOH :roll:. Today I finally heard back and the KOH was only 90% not the 98 I was originally told so I was about 10% short on the KOH in this mix. I think I will make a new batch with the correct KOH ratio and if this works out well in a future batch will dissolve this failed batch and add the additional KOH.

Guess this was a good lesson for me to make small test batches when making a new recipe or purchasing from a new supplier.