Replacing water with vinegar

[KimT2au]

At the moment I master batch my lye, so can I confirm that if I wanted to replace the additional water with vinegar, I would have to add the additional lye to the master batched lye I have weighed out. Is that correct? Does it mean that using vinegar to replace the water that is not part of the master batched lye, rather than all of the water, that the bar would still be hard?

I also use a low superfat of 2%.

ETA: I use distilled vinegar not apple cider vinegar

@cmzaha do you use a low superfat because of the vinegar or because you prefer it that way? Do you use distilled vinegar because of the cost compared to ACV or for some other reason?

 

[cmzaha]

I have low superfatted since my second year of soaping. I mentioned my low superfat once in a forum and someone told me they would not touch my soap with a 10' pole. I just replied not to judge what you have not tried...My drains did not like all the oil going down the drain so I learned to make a nice balanced soap with low superfat, which has nothing to do with the vinegar. My plumbing bills became a lot less. I use distilled vinegar because it does not affect the color and their is no advantage to using ACV.

If I use my 50/50 masterbatch lye I just replace the balance of my liquid with vinegar and multiply the amount of vinegar by 0.0357 to determine the extra lye required, adding it into the vinegar. Yes the bar is still hard with the 50% vinegar, but we have to remember, my recipes are also pretty hard

 

[dixiedragon]

Turned out great! I was really impressed with how easily it unmolded. This was from my tall skinny mold which is usually a pain to unmold.

 

[cmzaha]

Turned out great! I was really impressed with how easily it unmolded. This was from my tall skinny mold which is usually a pain to unmold.View attachment 35708View attachment 35709

Very nice looking. Will be curious how you like them after cure

 

[shunt2011]

@dixiedragon They turned out beautiful! Now, I'm going to have to give it a go sometime soon.

 

[dixiedragon]

So, if I want to make coffee soap, can I just put my coffee grounds in the vinegar, nuke it, let it cool and then make the lye water?

 

[shunt2011]

@dixiedragon Look at you go!

 

[dixiedragon]

I admit, I expected a violent reaction when I added the lye to the vinegar. But...nothing! It didn't even fizz a bit like it does when you add it to water. the lye crystals just sat there until I stirred.

I usually don't use my TS molds because it's so difficult to get the soap out. I was doing a long gel in the oven, then freezing, then hot water, then squeeze and pushing and pulling. Then bars a the end usually got a bit mangled. This just slid right out after I broke the seal.

 

[cmzaha]

I just use used coffee grounds and add them to my oils, but I am sure you could add them to your vinegar lye mix. You are not adding in a large amount of extra lye.

 

[smengot0]

Very useful information. Thanks. I think I should try using vinegar instead of water in my recipes. Or at least water:vinegar ratio of 50:50.

 

[earlene]

I may be late to the thread, but thought I'd mention this. Generally I don't use animal fats in my soap, so was surprised to find that the time I used lard and 100% vinegar replacement, the soap was very brittle. So my assumption was that the vinegar at that strength was far too much. I have not had such a brittle soap any other time. It was extremely hard soap, too, which was good, but it was so brittle that cutting it caused it to break in weird ways reminiscent of pieces of rock that come off a mountain side in odd shapes.

Incidentally when I make soap with vinegar I do the calculations for adjusting the lye, but may have made some sort of mistake with that batch in the calculations. I cannot be completely sure as it was a couple of years or so ago.

 

[cmzaha]

I may be late to the thread, but thought I'd mention this. Generally I don't use animal fats in my soap, so was surprised to find that the time I used lard and 100% vinegar replacement, the soap was very brittle. So my assumption was that the vinegar at that strength was far too much. I have not had such a brittle soap any other time. It was extremely hard soap, too, which was good, but it was so brittle that cutting it caused it to break in weird ways reminiscent of pieces of rock that come off a mountain side in odd shapes.

Incidentally when I make soap with vinegar I do the calculations for adjusting the lye, but may have made some sort of mistake with that batch in the calculations. I cannot be completely sure as it was a couple of years or so ago.

My non-vegan soap is approx 45/20 tallow lard and my vegan soaps are 45% palm. They do not turn out extremely brittle, but I have to cut in 8-12 hrs

 

[dixiedragon]

I use 40% lard in my soaps. I definitely noticed more crumbly bits. The bars aren't damaged, but it's almost like little soap shavings? The soap was 24 hrs old when I cut, so I will definitely cut sooner with vinegar after this!

 

[ps1cute]

I use 40% lard in my soaps. I definitely noticed more crumbly bits. The bars aren't damaged, but it's almost like little soap shavings? The soap was 24 hrs old when I cut, so I will definitely cut sooner with vinegar after this!

I maybe getting on this thread late, but I've questioned also if ACV could be used in soap. I've seen a lot of people sell soap with that additive, but didn't understand how it was incorporated. I haven't been soaping long, so some stuff still goes over my head, but with the recipe you used, did you use the vinegar at 100% of water replacement or was it 50:50?

 

[dixiedragon]

I used vinegar at 100%. I was able to look up the recipe I used in Soapee (go soapee!) I used a 0% superfat, since the vinegar will eat up some of the lye, so my actual ending superfat is in the 5% range. I've never used AVC and I'd be concerned about it making the soap brownish. But if you're okay with that, then I'd try it at 100% water replacement and a superfat of 0%. Or maybe a 50% with a superfat of 2 or 3%.

 

[cmzaha]

I used vinegar at 100%. I was able to look up the recipe I used in Soapee (go soapee!) I used a 0% superfat, since the vinegar will eat up some of the lye, so my actual ending superfat is in the 5% range. I've never used AVC and I'd be concerned about it making the soap brownish. But if you're okay with that, then I'd try it at 100% water replacement and a superfat of 0%. Or maybe a 50% with a superfat of 2 or 3%.

Can I ask why you do not just use the factor of 0.357 x the amount of vinegar, adding in the extra lye, and control the superfat as you normally would?

 

[dixiedragon]

Can I ask why you do not just use the factor of 0.357 x the amount of vinegar, adding in the extra lye, and control the superfat as you normally would?

Because math is hard, lol.

I have no idea how to do that. where would I add that in Soapee?

 

[Kcryss]

Because math is hard, lol.

I have no idea how to do that. where would I add that in Soapee?

Soapmakingfriend does the math for you.

 

[Quilter99755]

Soapmakingfriend does the math for you.

I just went into Soapmakingfriend's calculator and using my last recipe the only way I could enter the vinegar was to halve the liquid in the recipe and use it as a given gram rate for the vinegar. Example: the total grams for the liquid was 300, I put in 150 grams of vinegar and calculated the recipe. The lye was adjusted but also the liquid was a little more than a total of 300. Did I do this right? Or is there a better way to do the formula?

So this is making a harder soap (that you unmold and cut faster) with possibly better lather? I did not see any differences in the Recipe Properties or Fatty Acids so it is not changing the soaping process, so to speak. I'm not big on the chemistry part of soaping...just trying to find some good recipes for my skin(and family) and ones that are longer lasting, to boot. Thanks to DeeAnna I finally realized that Hard does not equate to Long lasting. But possibly the vinegar addition might be better for my kids in Hawaii, since that is one of their complaints about my soap. Since it is free, it's the only complaint! LOL

 

[Kcryss]

I just went into Soapmakingfriend's calculator and using my last recipe the only way I could enter the vinegar was to halve the liquid in the recipe and use it as a given gram rate for the vinegar. Example: the total grams for the liquid was 300, I put in 150 grams of vinegar and calculated the recipe. The lye was adjusted but also the liquid was a little more than a total of 300. Did I do this right? Or is there a better way to do the formula?

That is a very good question. I've been using it to do my calculations and have had a great deal of trouble with HP taking forever and a day to cook. Wondering now if the problem was actually with the vinegar calculation. The last batch I made was without vinegar and a few other additives, and it cooked in 14 minutes ... guess I'll have to build a spreadsheet with formulas to do that math for me and see if there is a difference.