Replacement for hydrog soy oil

[Bex1982]

So a big part of some of my recipes has been hydrogenated soy bean oil from the sage. Mostly because 100% coconut is too drying and I don't use palm due to the whole orangutang thing and I live in a very environmentally conscience area.

My soaps are not soft or anything. I picked hydrogenated soy because they said it would be more hardening than just the oil. Anyway, there are a lot of soy allergies and it's not even that cost effective anymore so i'd like to change without changing the texture/hardness of my soap and or increasing prices. I thought about some of the other butters, but i also don't want my soap to go rancid/smell gross after a few months and soy hold up really well.

Any suggestions?

 

[Bex1982]

I pay about $6 a lb because I have to pay for shipping on the big bucket.

 

[pamielynn]

Are you using soy as a replacement for palm oil? What about lard?

 

[Susie]

Lard. You can usually purchase it locally if you want to just get a small amount for a test batch or two.

 

[HoneyLady]

If Bex lives in an area with people wringing their hands over the orangutan, lard soap is probably a no-no.

Frankly, Bex, if it were ME (that's your warning, LOL) I'd do what I want, and start a major education campaign.

Firstly, there are multiple sources of responsibly produced palm oils out there that do NOT affect the monkeys. Buy them and use it as an advertising hook. Palm Kernel oil uses a different part of the plant, does not affect the monkeys, and produces similar results.

Secondly, soy is NOT necessarily an environmentally responsible choice. {Please note: I'm not saying this TO you, but TO your customers who are thinking "it's a renewable resource", blah, blah. } I used to live in Boulder; I now live about 100 miles from Austin -- I am familiar with the crunchy granola / Birkenstock / Gaia mindset. And I respect it, although I don't subscribe to it. :smile:

Only 2% or less of the soy grown in this country is organically raised, and it ALL goes into food -- fresh beans and tofu. The other 98% is GMO, raised with industrial agriculture practices. Over 70% of the soy growing currently is a brand of seed from Monsanto called "Round-Up Ready". That means the soy is genetically modified to be able to withstand sprayer trucks driving up and down the fields spraying Round-Up herbicide 2-3 times per growing season. :thumbdown:

Lard or tallow is a natural by-product of the meat industry, whether or no you are vegetarian. (And the vast majority of scare stories you hear about how the animals are raised, killed, and processed are isolated instances, and often exaggerated. Be smarter than the fear mongers.) Pigs are not being raised for the sole purpose of producing lard.

Most current soy (and corn) crops are GMOs developed by, marketed by, and processed by the monoculture, industrial ag complex. I.e., Monsanto, ADM, Bayer, et al. Soy and corn are being planted for the sole purpose of the products they can make -- HFCS, corn syrup, oils, animal feed, etc., and not as food for humans. So you may want to look at the big picture and see which you believe to be more responsible.

(And as an aside, most of the hand-wringers and vegans would starve to death without the industrial ag complex and local Whole Foods. It's nearly impossible to produce enough vegetable based food for yourself and family unless you live in a near tropical climate. Which is why most humans have long lived on family farms and consumed meat.)

You also have the option of finding (and they are out there, but may take some searching) a local meat cutter / butcher / processor. These are actually easier to find in small towns. They process the animals from the local farmers and ranchers; are doing it by hand, and without the stuff you hear horror stories about. They should have lard and/or tallow they would love to get rid of -- although it may not be rendered. They may render it for you for a fee.

Moving to a rural beef raising area and becoming a beekeeper really changed my perception of how and where our food comes from. And how and why a small handful of people (on both ends of the spectrum) spend a LOT of money to distort your thinking and influence your choices. :wtf:

I like hydrogenated soy shortening for both cooking and soap. It's cheap, easy to find, and produces great results. But I don't pat myself on the back for nurturing our Earth Mother while I do it. (Tongue in cheek!)

~Honey Lady~ :smile:

 

[Bex1982]

If it was soap for me personally, but I know people around here are looking for "veg" only soaps, even if tallow is humane etc.
I totally agree with the soy thing and I think people are coming around and now realizing all that GMO stuff because I've gotten a few remarks about soy being in my products. To be fair I started using soy 8 years ago when the GMO thing wasn't really (was it?) and issue and I liked my formulas so I just kept it in there and surprise, vegetarians LIKED it, they gotta eat so much of it in their minds it's great. I'm not sure what kind of protein and grains they're eating now since most of it is GMO, but I guess they are looking for "organic" versions. If I make "organic" soap it will cost me like $5 a bar just to produce lol, not mentioning how the prices of essential oils have skyrocketed.
If palm kernel is monkey safe and i can state that on the label then that would be great. I buy from bramble berry because they are local and I don't have to deal with shipping. I wrote them about the orangutan thing and am waiting for a response back.

 

[Bex1982]

I just saw now that bramble berry's palm is "sustainable" is that orangutan safe. I think it is, but I still have not heard back from them.

 

[Susie]

If it is sustainable, I would print that statement out and have it ready to hand to people.

If you live in an area that you can find a local butcher to get lard or tallow from, you could sell the "locally sourced" aspect of it.

Folks are going to have to choose which evil they consider the lesser one. You might be able to help them.

 

[Bex1982]

If it is sustainable, I would print that statement out and have it ready to hand to people.

If you live in an area that you can find a local butcher to get lard or tallow from, you could sell the "locally sourced" aspect of it.

Folks are going to have to choose which evil they consider the lesser one. You might be able to help them.

Good advice

 

[Obsidian]

Palm kernel isn't a substitute for your hydro soy oil, its a sub for coconut oil. It increases the cleansing properties of soap and adds large fluffy bubbles to the lather. I use it exclusively in my soap instead of coconut.
If you decide to try palm, make sure you get regular palm oil, not kernel.

 

[Bex1982]

So far no real subs for hydro soy. Not sure what to do.

 

[OliveOil2]

Not sure where you live, but you can purchase both hydro soy and hydro palm at most restaurant supply stores, even Smart & Final stores, they sell in a 50lb box which may be more than you want. The cost is less than $1.00 per pound.

 

[shunt2011]

I'm in the group that doesn't use soy as too many people are avoiding GMO's and most soy has GMO's in them. I use Olive, Palm, Coconut and a couple others oils. Makes great soap. You can make a great 100% CO with 20% superfat.

 

[Bex1982]

I've been seeing that CO with 20% sf, been wanting to try!!

 

[kmarvel]

Very well said, Honey!!

 

[Saponista]

http://www.ngiwax.com/aboutecosoya/purityofecosoya.html

Can't you just use some certified GM free hydrogenated soy wax?

 

[Bex1982]

Im not sure where to buy it. I guess I could do a search and see. I wonder what the price it like...

 

[Saponista]

I'm in the uk, but lots of people use it to make candles so I would have thought it would be fairly widely available. You could always drop them an email for a supplier list.

 

[HoneyLady]

Saponista, Not looking to start a tempest in a teapot, nor am I throwing stones. I'm "observating". :smile: No comment on YOU, just your link.

I commented on this in the candle making area. Despite what they claim, I personally do not believe the claims that this particular brand of soy wax is GMO free. It just doesn't add up.

Less than 2% of all soybean crops grown in the US are NON GMOs. ALL of them go into human food making.

The rest are GMOs, over 75% being one specific type developed by Monsanto called "Round Up Ready". This strain was specifically developed to withstand multiple applications of the herbicide Round Up. And yes, Round Up DOES kill bees. The soybeans are self-pollinating and provide no pollen for the bees. Round Up may not be detectable in UNSAFE levels in the oil, but it is most certainly used a LOT to grow the crops.

Oils are made into waxes with the use of hexanes. Not healthy.

The "beeswax free" selling point is not plus in my opinion -- and I am a beekeeper with over 25 hives. Imported beeswax from India, China, and other countries with regulation issues is a problem. Beeswax from US and Canadian hives (and EU) are safe.

We are all regulated in *how* we raise the bees, and *how* we collect wax. It is specifically against the law to destroy a hive to collect the honey or the wax. It is specifically required to raise the bees in a sustainable fashion, despite what PETA and others might wish you to think. Bees themselves are now an endangered resource and keepers are doing all we can to help them flourish. Both they honey AND they wax we collect are SURPLUS products of the hive. We leave what the bees need, and collect the extra.

Paraffin is a by-product of the petroleum industry, the way lard is a by-product of the meat processing industry. And honey and wax are by-products of beekeeping. I know of NO beekeepers in the US who are keeping bees *solely* for the purpose of collecting wax. You can choose not to use these products, but unlike GMO soy and corn, they are not commodities raised solely for their by-products.

I won't even touch the problem with USDA standards and labeling, and how what you read "does not mean what you tink it means. " -- a' la Inigo Montoya of The Princess Bride. The EU seems to be following suit.

Companies are very sophisticated in parting us with our cash, and they can be quite deceptive and use misdirection to make us think we are doing one thing, when we are doing another. Just like my Mom hiding broccoli in the cheesy rice casserole that I love. I was 15 before I realized I was eating broccoli! Duh.

~HoneyLady~

 

[judymoody]

I would go to soapcalc.net, check out the fatty acid profile for hydrogenated soy, and then look at other oils and see what looks similar.

Personally, I've never been a huge fan of soy as it's less stable than many other soaping oils (although hydrogenated will have a longer shelf life). As $6 lb. doesn't seem like a bargain to me, I'd investigate alternatives. Olive oil, rice bran oil, palm, palm kernel, and coconut are all cheaper and they can make a great bar. Shay & Company might be an option as they are in Oregon and the shipping might not be too bad. Also, there are restaurant supply places in Seattle where you can buy basic soaping oils in bulk for reasonable prices. I have a soaper friend in Northern Idaho that makes the drive periodically to stock up.