I found a recipe in a book that I really want to expand on and make it my main recipe. It's a green tea soap. You're supposed to use green tea instead of water when you mix your lye. It calls for almond oil, avocado oil, coconut oil and olive oil. I ran it through soap calc and it's going to be an extremely soft bar of soap. I'm worried it will be too soft. I plan on using sodium lactate to make it a bit harder, but how much will that really help? I also really want to use this green tea butter from wholesale. The butter is made with almond oil and vegetable oil. Should I subtract a bit of the almond oil from the recipe and replace it with the butter? If I add the butter without adjusting the almond oil will that make the soap too soft? Is there a way to add a custom ingredient on the soap calc? I just don't want the bar of soap to turn to mush in the shower and would like it to last a while. Is there an oil I can add that would harden the bar? I was thinking of adding some palm oil. Can you have too many oils in a soap? Is there a standard limit that should be followed?
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Anstarx
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Green tea as liquid will go brown later after asponification. I made a green tea bar using green milk tea as liquid and added green tea powder. The result was a chocolate brown.
If you don't mind that, however, you can use the original recipe you found. Even if it looked soft on the number you can simply wait it out. My softest recipe took a whole week to unmold but it was really nice to use once it cured for 3 months.
Sodium Lactate will make your soap unmold faster, I usually use 1tsp/ppo or 1% of total batter weight. It won't make soap necessarily harder than it should be was my experience.
If you want to use the butter you mentioned, you need to know what other vegetable oil is in there and how much there was in order to calculate the lye amount. You can contact your suppliers to ask for a SAP value if possible then you can find a oil in soapcalc that has the same SAP to calculate with. If not, you can always do it manually.
If you are using palm you will be replacing some of your original oil with it, not adding extra oil.
There isn't really a limit on how many kind of oil you can use as long as you are using the correct lye amount. I would recommend not use too many though if you are still new to soaping. My most complex recipe is 7 oils and it was a pain in the rear to measure.
If you don't mind that, however, you can use the original recipe you found. Even if it looked soft on the number you can simply wait it out. My softest recipe took a whole week to unmold but it was really nice to use once it cured for 3 months.
Sodium Lactate will make your soap unmold faster, I usually use 1tsp/ppo or 1% of total batter weight. It won't make soap necessarily harder than it should be was my experience.
If you want to use the butter you mentioned, you need to know what other vegetable oil is in there and how much there was in order to calculate the lye amount. You can contact your suppliers to ask for a SAP value if possible then you can find a oil in soapcalc that has the same SAP to calculate with. If not, you can always do it manually.
If you are using palm you will be replacing some of your original oil with it, not adding extra oil.
There isn't really a limit on how many kind of oil you can use as long as you are using the correct lye amount. I would recommend not use too many though if you are still new to soaping. My most complex recipe is 7 oils and it was a pain in the rear to measure.
Thank you so much for the answer and all of your advice! The website does give the sap value for the green tea butter, so I'll mess around with that on the calculator. I don't mind if the soap turns brown. It's just for me and family if they want it. I looove green tea and ever since I saw the recipe I've become obsessed with making it.
If you want a harder bar and are vege then you can use either cocoa butter or soy wax (shea too - but not as hard as the other two)
You should run this recipe through a soap recipe calculator and check what the lye concentration (or water:lye ratio) is for the recipe as given by the author. I'd be wanting to make this with at least a 33% lye concentration (2:1 water:lye ratio). Many recipes out there are often based on "full" water, and for the fats you've listed, a moderate lye concentration (less water) would work better.
edit: Honestly, though, I don't see any particular magic going on based on the fats you've listed. If you have a recipe that you like better, turn that recipe into a green tea soap by subbing green tea for water. If you like the idea of avocado, you can reduce any other high oleic oil (olive, almond for example) by a few percent (5-10% maybe) and sub in that percentage as avocado.
As far as the green tea "butter" goes -- I haven't been too impressed with all the "faux butters" out there -- they're often mostly or all hydrogenated veg shortening (think Crisco). IMO they're intended more for use in lotions and creams where people want the firmer texture of a solid fat. You could infuse green tea leaves in one of your "real" fats and get much the same effect.
edit: Honestly, though, I don't see any particular magic going on based on the fats you've listed. If you have a recipe that you like better, turn that recipe into a green tea soap by subbing green tea for water. If you like the idea of avocado, you can reduce any other high oleic oil (olive, almond for example) by a few percent (5-10% maybe) and sub in that percentage as avocado.
As far as the green tea "butter" goes -- I haven't been too impressed with all the "faux butters" out there -- they're often mostly or all hydrogenated veg shortening (think Crisco). IMO they're intended more for use in lotions and creams where people want the firmer texture of a solid fat. You could infuse green tea leaves in one of your "real" fats and get much the same effect.
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soapgeek
Well-Known Member
Hi DeeAnna,
Sorry for the intrusion, still learning...
What does "full" water mean please, what would the lye concentration be for that?
Thank you
"Full water" has no widely accepted, defined meaning, which is why I didn't give any numbers for "full water" when I mentioned it earlier.
What most people assume "full water" means is either the water content you get when you use the "38% water as % of oils" setting or the water content you get when you use 28% lye concentration. But they aren't necessarily the same amount of water.
What most people assume "full water" means is either the water content you get when you use the "38% water as % of oils" setting or the water content you get when you use 28% lye concentration. But they aren't necessarily the same amount of water.
soapgeek
Well-Known Member
Ah, thank you!
I see that '38% water as % of oils' is the default setting in soapcalc, this makes sense now!
Depending on your recipe, "38% water as % of oils" can result in a lye concentration ranging from 25% up to 33%. That range of concentration will have a large impact on how soap recipes perform.
Another thing that many people don't realize is when they use "water as % of oils" to calculate the water amount, the math involved will call for MORE water in recipes that would benefit from LESS, and vice versa. This is counter-productive.
It's more helpful and more straightforward in the long run to base the amount of water on the alkali (NaOH) weight rather than on the fat weight. I suggest people use lye concentration or water:lye ratio (they mean the exact same thing, just look different). If you do that, you can ignore the "water as % of oils" thing entirely.
Another thing that many people don't realize is when they use "water as % of oils" to calculate the water amount, the math involved will call for MORE water in recipes that would benefit from LESS, and vice versa. This is counter-productive.
It's more helpful and more straightforward in the long run to base the amount of water on the alkali (NaOH) weight rather than on the fat weight. I suggest people use lye concentration or water:lye ratio (they mean the exact same thing, just look different). If you do that, you can ignore the "water as % of oils" thing entirely.
Why, without testing it, do you want to make this your main recipe?
I would not use any of those fake "butters" in my main recipe. For me it's about the labeling. I wouldn't want to have to put "hydrogenated vegetable oil" on my labels (because listing green tea butter is not correct as there is no such thing even if it sounds nice)...but maybe I'm a snob for that.
I also view them as a huge waste of money because they are mostly hydrogenated oils with maybe a little bit of additive. I'd much rather buy the additive (like you are using green tea as the water) and use that.
As far as the recipe being soft, I'm of the general opinion that that's nothing a good cure can't fix. I would maybe add some actual butters in instead in place of some of the liquid oils. My recipe is 60% liquid oils, no palm, and I have no problem at all after a two month cure.
I would not use any of those fake "butters" in my main recipe. For me it's about the labeling. I wouldn't want to have to put "hydrogenated vegetable oil" on my labels (because listing green tea butter is not correct as there is no such thing even if it sounds nice)...but maybe I'm a snob for that.
I also view them as a huge waste of money because they are mostly hydrogenated oils with maybe a little bit of additive. I'd much rather buy the additive (like you are using green tea as the water) and use that.
As far as the recipe being soft, I'm of the general opinion that that's nothing a good cure can't fix. I would maybe add some actual butters in instead in place of some of the liquid oils. My recipe is 60% liquid oils, no palm, and I have no problem at all after a two month cure.
I will definitely be running it through soap calc. I've already been playing around with it on there, adding oils and butters just to see the differences. I don't have any particular recipe that I like. I'm extremely new to cold process. I only made my first batch of soap almost two weeks ago. I just happened to see this recipe for a green tea soap and I really love green tea, so have been wanting to make it. I didn't realize the butter was like crisco lol. I guess if I don't like it I'll just use green tea powder instead. Thank you for the advice!
It doesn't necessarily have to be this exact recipe that I want as my main, I really just want a green tea soap for my main recipe. Sweet almond oil is the first ingredient listed on that green tea butter and the vegetable oil is the last. I'm going to try it out to see if I like it or not. I don't care if I have to put hydrogenated vegetable oil on a label. I don't really see a problem with it. Is there something bad about it?
There's nothing wrong with hydrogenated veg oil (shortening) from a technical point of view. It will saponify just fine and is a good source of palmitic and stearic acids. These fatty acids add mildness, hardness, longevity, and creamy lather when used in soap.
I confess it's snobbery on my part to not want to use shortening in my soap. I've never cared to use shortening in my cooking, and that attitude carries over into my soap and lotion making.
If you ever do sell, you may find most of your clientele won't mind hydrogenated veg oil in the ingredients list, but I imagine a few will. Most of us who sell (I only sell a little bit in one local gift shop) are marketing our soap as something that's unique and hand crafted. Hydrogenated veg oil ... well it doesn't fit into the "artsy fartsy" niche very well.
On a more practical note, I also think the faux butters are way overpriced for the value they offer. A quick look on google shows Crisco selling at $0.11 per oz. Soapgoods.com is selling green tea butter (sweet almond, hydrog veg oil, powdered tea leaves) at about $1 per oz.
I mean, if I'm going to pay $16 per pound, that tea powder had better be mixed into shea butter or something else with more of a sexy cachet, doncha know?
I confess it's snobbery on my part to not want to use shortening in my soap. I've never cared to use shortening in my cooking, and that attitude carries over into my soap and lotion making.
If you ever do sell, you may find most of your clientele won't mind hydrogenated veg oil in the ingredients list, but I imagine a few will. Most of us who sell (I only sell a little bit in one local gift shop) are marketing our soap as something that's unique and hand crafted. Hydrogenated veg oil ... well it doesn't fit into the "artsy fartsy" niche very well.
On a more practical note, I also think the faux butters are way overpriced for the value they offer. A quick look on google shows Crisco selling at $0.11 per oz. Soapgoods.com is selling green tea butter (sweet almond, hydrog veg oil, powdered tea leaves) at about $1 per oz.
I mean, if I'm going to pay $16 per pound, that tea powder had better be mixed into shea butter or something else with more of a sexy cachet, doncha know?
Snob away lol, I know I'm definitely snobby about certain things. I was just wondering if there was there was something bad about it, like the way it was processed since you guys don't like it. I sold my melt and pour soaps for a bit when I was a stay at home mom, but if I ever sell cp it won't be for a very long time. A few years I imagine. I still have way too much to learn and need tons of practice before I would be okay with selling anything and I would definitely be more picky and cost efficient with my ingredients. I'm working full time and going to school and my kids are pretty young(6&4). This purely a hobby/ stress reliever activity for now. There's just something so relaxing about the whole process =)There's nothing wrong with hydrogenated veg oil (shortening) from a technical point of view. It will saponify just fine and is a good source of palmitic and stearic acids. These fatty acids add mildness, hardness, longevity, and creamy lather when used in soap.
I confess it's snobbery on my part to not want to use shortening in my soap. I've never cared to use shortening in my cooking, and that attitude carries over into my soap and lotion making.
If you ever do sell, you may find most of your clientele won't mind hydrogenated veg oil in the ingredients list, but I imagine a few will. Most of us who sell (I only sell a little bit in one local gift shop) are marketing our soap as something that's unique and hand crafted. Hydrogenated veg oil ... well it doesn't fit into the "artsy fartsy" niche very well.
On a more practical note, I also think the faux butters are way overpriced for the value they offer. A quick look on google shows Crisco selling at $0.11 per oz. Soapgoods.com is selling green tea butter (sweet almond, hydrog veg oil, powdered tea leaves) at about $1 per oz.
I mean, if I'm going to pay $16 per pound, that tea powder had better be mixed into shea butter or something else with more of a sexy cachet, doncha know?
I totally agree with DeeAnna about the price of the faux butters. They have simply infused shortenings that you can make yourself. Shortening still makes a soft soap so you gain nothing by using the faux butters. You can use powdered Green tea extract and infuse it in Palm Oil to make a harder longer lasting soap.
As for Real Avocado butter and real Olive Butter you can buy those from Oregon Trail Soaps. You cannot buy those from WSP, theirs are still the shortening infused butters. So you are just as well off using a nice hard butter or shea with Avocado Oil, Olive Oil.
As for Real Avocado butter and real Olive Butter you can buy those from Oregon Trail Soaps. You cannot buy those from WSP, theirs are still the shortening infused butters. So you are just as well off using a nice hard butter or shea with Avocado Oil, Olive Oil.
I do like being cheap, so I guess I'll try adding green tea powder to my own oil. I only bought 2oz to try out in a small batch of soap, so no major loss if I don't like it. That's good to know about the butters from WSP. The only one I've bought from them is shea.
You can infuse green tea into your own oils. It will be much cheaper, and you will know exactly what is in it. Although, I doubt any "benefits" from the tea will survive saponification.
If it is the scent you are after, there are fragrance oils that you can try out.
If it is the scent you are after, there are fragrance oils that you can try out.
I use green tea fragrance oil from Nature's Garden -- it's one of my personal favorites. As to whether it smells exactly like green tea, well, no, not exactly. The FO has notes of green and tannin -- like freshly brewed tea or fragrant dried tea leaves -- but there are hints of citrus and sweet herbs wafting around too. Kind of a clean smelling riff on tea, not an exact dupe.
dianaabuela1
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De Ann how about almond butter?
SmockingRN
Well-Known Member
Thank you all for your questions and answers, so helpful! I used a tea scented fragrance oil in a recent soap and what a nice shower experience that made...I am wondering what a soap made with French Green Clay and tea scent would be like?
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