Recipe help please?

[Honeychiles]

Hi all I'm a soaping newbie and would really appreciate some more experienced eyes looking over a recipe I'm considering trying.

I've been toying with this for weeks and after running approximately 10 billion soap recipe permutations through the soap calculator, my brain is feeling fried. You could even say it feels saponifried

I'm like olive oil soaps but have been lured in by the alleged silky skin feel of rice bran oil. Along with fact that it's a fraction of the cost of olive oil. I know a few people here use it but there seems to be a lot of people saying that too much linolenic acid summons the boogie monster AKA DOS.

I don't really want to start buying ROE this early in my soaping efforts. What if I'm the one person on the planet who is immune to the soaping bug???

Am I stressing too much about the fatty acid profiles and just need to chill out that the linoleic acid is smidge above 15%?

Whoops I should probably add the recipe!

Olive oil: 50%
Rice bran oil: 25%
Coconut oil:20%
Castor oil: 5%

Would it matter if I increased the rice bran to 30% and broke the 15% linoleic limit

 

[KiwiMoose]

Some people have reported using it at higher amounts and have had no problems with DOS. If you used it at 30% would you take the extra off the OO? I've used it at 30% with no problems at all - but I tend to stick to 20%.
I would probably recommend you add a butter ( cocoa or shea) for better longevity. If you have a look at the fatty acid profile in soap calc you will want the palmitic and stearic increased if you want a longer lasting soap. However, what you have there will make soap so give it a go!
Make sure you use the lye concentration setting in the calculator and not the water as a percentage of oils. Go for 33% to start.
Good luck!

 

[AliOop]

Saponifried I am going to use that one!

Ditto everything @KiwiMoose said. But if you decide not to add cocoa butter or shea just yet, consider dissolving a tsp each of baking soda, sugar, and salt in your lye water (before adding the lye) for every pound of oils. Warming the water can help everything dissolve well, which is important.

The baking soda and salt seem to cut down on the sliminess that comes with high-oleic bars, and the sugar will help to boost the lather. Without either the additives or the cocoa butter, your recipe will likely need at least six months of cure before you like it.

However you decide to proceed, make a really small batch to start, like 500g or 1lb. A square Tupperware container can make a nice mold if you don’t have a small one for testing your recipes.

Have fun, and let us know how it turns out!

 

[Honeychiles]

Thank you for the fantastic advice KiwiMoose and AliOop
I have been brave and bought Shea butter and ROE.
I was thinking of reducing the olive oil to 40% and then use the Shea at 10%
Do you think that'll be a bit more balanced?
PS, I learnt my lesson from my mammoth first batch and will use no more than 500g of oils!

 

[KiwiMoose]

I only just noticed that 'saponifried' comment - and it is hilarious!

Back to the business at hand, I would probably use it at 15 or 20% myself since it's the only fat contributing to longevity - BUT it is expensive so it's your call really. Why don't you try your original recipe first without it, and then try one with, say, 15% shea and then compare the qualities of the two? Even better if you can make them within a couple of days of each other so that they travel a similar curing journey while you test them.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I only just noticed that 'saponifried' comment - and it is hilarious!

Ditto! Thanks for the laugh! Brought back not-so-fond memories.

Soapers Choice, where I buy my oils, sells a 50/50 olive oil/RBO for the very reason you mentioned -- to reduce the expense of the olive oil.

To reduce the sliminess and long cure time castile soaps are know for, that @AliOop mentioned, and to incorporate Shea Butter try a 500 gram batch of ZNSC with this variation:

80% Olive Oil & RBO 50/50
10% Coconut Oil
5% Castor Oil
5% Shea Butter

This is close to the variation I use except for the RBO and shea butter. I have sensitive skin and I wash my face with it daily AM and PM. It has dense creamy lather like cold cream. No tightness at all. I start using it at the 2-week mark, although the longer the cure the better the bar!

I use antioxidants ROE & Vitamin E in every bar soap I make and I have never experienced DOS or soda ash.

You can use the ROE straight according to manufacturer's directions, or, to make it easier to work with, see this thread: ROE USE

GOOD LUCK & HAPPY SOAPING!

Olive oil: 50%
Rice bran oil: 25%
Coconut oil:20%
Castor oil: 5%

This looks good too. Like @KiwiMoose suggested, I would try making a 500 gram batch using @AliOop's suggestion of adding a tsp each of baking soda, sugar, and salt in your lye water.

use the lye concentration setting in the calculator and not the water as a percentage of oils. Go for 33% to start.

For comparison purposes, I would use 33% lye concentation as well. That should give you a good idea of the difference between a normal castile (slime/long cure) vs ZNSC.

 

[TheGecko]

What if I'm the one person on the planet who is immune to the soaping bug???

I considered that when I first decided to make soap which is why I went with the Beginner's Cold Process Soaping Kit from BB...it gave me everything I need to make a batch of soap (plus more), a tried and true recipe, clear instructions and a mold. If it turned out I didn't like soap making, I was out $50 and could donate the mold, but if I liked it...I had a good start.

But yeah, you don't want to purchase a 35 lb bucket of something that you don't like and can't use for something else.

25% for RBO looks fine, but I agree about adding some 'butter'...I use both Cocoa and Shea Butters in mine and just Shea in my Goat Milk Soap. You'll want to use at least 10% to 20% and I'd take it off the Olive Oil.

But in the end, the only way to know if you have a good recipe is just to make a test batch (20 oz total batch weight is good), let it cure for four to six weeks and then try it out. Yes...the wait...it's a killer, but you could also use the time to do some more research, read a good book, drool over micas.

 

[Quilter99755]

I have one bar left that is over two years old with 60%RBO, with cocoa butter, PKO and castor oil. No DOS in it. My usual recipe starts with 40% lard and 30% RBO with the rest just whatever I seem to have on hand. Olive oil is not in any of my recipes as it makes my skin itch. I love the addition of RBO and have never had DOS in any of the recipes. I don't know if it makes any difference but we live in high desert country with almost no humidity. I do put ROE in the gallon of RBO when I first get it and always shake the bottle before pouring into the soap recipe.

However, I did find some DOS when I went over to visit family and used the bathroom that my grandson uses.. there were soap "curls" stored under the shower head on a questionable metal rack with no soap saver under the curls. Others were sitting directly on a shelf trying to melt into the shelf from sitting in a puddle of water and the soap saver on the floor under the shower head. Grandson may "love" my soap but obviously does not pay attention to taking care of said soap. But that was "his" batch of soap which was 80% lard and 20% CO. I tossed all the chips, put down a soap saver pad under a new bar of soap and told Mama to remind him the soap would last a bit longer if he used it properly! LOL Teenage boys! Not an experience I had with my two girls! They are different!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

... have never had DOS in any of the recipes. I don't know if it makes any difference but we live in high desert country with almost no humidity.

We have that in common. I can't help but wonder if that's the reason we don't experience DOS, or soda ash either.

 

[Quilter99755]

We have that in common. I can't help but wonder if that's the reason we don't experience DOS, or soda ash either.

I rarely do CP but have experienced soda ash! But have not necessarily been careful to avoid it either. I have always wondered if humidity plays a big part of DOS, but not enough to check it out with searches. I just call myself lucky. PS: used to live in Estes Park for a while and Loveland areas...they aren't nearly as dry as here (or at least while I was living there)

 

[KiwiMoose]

@Honeychiles - a good point made by @Quilter99755 about the humidity. All of NZ has relatively high humidity (summer and winter) so watch out for sweaty soap and DOS. I rarely get DOS but have had it a couple of times - purely random since I cure/store my soap in the way and use the same ingredients.
If you have the ROE now, it's best added to the RBO when it is a new bottle.
Countdown do quite a cheap one in a bigger bottle 'Simple' brand, or you can get 'Pams' from New World or Pak'n'Save in a 2lt bottle. Check that the 1lt bottles are not on special though because, ironically, it is sometimes cheaper to buy to of those than the bigger bottle. Don't get Alpha One brand because it's ALWAYS more expensive.
Look up the usage rates of ROE - less is more!

 

[Honeychiles]

Thank you everyone!

Part of my thinking for using RBO is that it's my normal, every day cooking oil whereas I have to buy plain olive oil just for soap making. I might hold off adding the ROE to the bottle!

It took me awhile to get around to trying the new recipes because I was unwell. I couldn't sleep one night and thought why not try the soap? Bad idea!

I write down the weights as I measure the oils, y'know to ensure accuracy. Afterwards, I realised I used too much olive oil, a fraction too little lye and completely forgot the castor oil and ROE.

I've run my ratios through the soap calculator again and it appears my mistakes have evened out a little There's about 3g too much lye. I'm leaving it for a few weeks and see if it's lye heavy or not.

Don't soap and Covid people!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Thank you everyone!

Part of my thinking for using RBO is that it's my normal, every day cooking oil whereas I have to buy plain olive oil just for soap making. I might hold off adding the ROE to the bottle!

It took me awhile to get around to trying the new recipes because I was unwell. I couldn't sleep one night and thought why not try the soap? Bad idea!

I write down the weights as I measure the oils, y'know to ensure accuracy. Afterwards, I realised I used too much olive oil, a fraction too little lye and completely forgot the castor oil and ROE.

I've run my ratios through the soap calculator again and it appears my mistakes have evened out a little There's about 3g too much lye. I'm leaving it for a few weeks and see if it's lye heavy or not.

Don't soap and Covid people!

I just did similar ( leaving out oil) and it looks like it's gonna be fine. Hang in there. Hope you feel better soon.

 

[earlene]

Don't soap and Covid people!

So true! I hope you are recovering now and have no residual complications.