Really dislike palm...

[Obsidian]

I bought palm with the idea of being able to offer a all vegetable soap line when I start selling but after using it in a few batches, I came to the conclusion that I hate the stuff.
It traces wayyy to fast, even when soaped cool and there is always weird white streaks in my bars. I melt down the whole bucket to make sure the steric is evenly mixed in but it doesn't help.
For those of you who like palm, how do you deal with its fickle nature? Once mine is gone, I won't replace it.
The unscented bars I made today in individual molds were supposed to have nice smooth bottoms but nope, it glopped up and is ugly. Lets hope it will at least be a even color and not streaky.

 

[judymoody]

I don't have a problem with it in soap. I tend to soap hotter (around 120) and that keeps the stearic in suspension. It also doesn't seem that fast to me (are you sure you didn't end up with palm kernel?) However, I detest the feeling of it on my hands - it's so greasy and grainy. Ick.

 

[newbie]

Hmmm, what is the percentage in your recipe? I've used palm quite a bit, even at 40%. I have the pre-stirred type from Soaper's Choice. It does trace faster than tallow or lard but it can be pretty manageable, although I do sometimes get stearic streaks but not always. That part I think depends on how hot your gel gets.

You could try just stick blending a touch, just to emulsification and then spatula stir from there, while you are using the rest of your supply up. The amount you can stick blend compared to an OO and Lard recipe is fairly different and maybe you are SB'ing that same amount out of habit. ?

 

[AnnaMarie]

I'm with the others. Palm should be an easy oil to use. I find it to be very reliable and non-tempermental. Do you have a particular recipe you use where you have the most trouble??? If so, maybe we can help you trouble shoot??
Cheers!
Anna Marie

 

[Tienne]

In the DSM soap I make, I use 80% palm oil and I love that soap. I usually soap at RT, but when using such a high amount of palm, I'll soap it at 50 C. It's not as slow as lard, but it's not super fast either.

 

[Obsidian]

Positive its not palm kernel, I ordered it from WSP. I did soap hotter today but even when soaping at RT, it traces really fast. My recipe is:

OO 50%
Palm 25%
Palm kernel flakes 20%
Castor 5%
SF 7%

H2O 10oz
Lye 4.25

It hits thick trace within a minute and by the time I'm halfway in the pour, I have to scrape the bowl with a spoon, its too thick to easily pour out. I make the same recipe with lard and it behaves so much better.

 

[AnnaMarie]

I haven't used both palm and palm kernel flakes in the same recipe, but I remember that Soap Queen recommends usage up to 15% and says that it will speed up trace. Maybe someone else will chime in??
Cheers!
Anna Marie

 

[Obsidian]

I use flakes at 20% in many other recipes and it never gives me any trouble. Do those of you use use palm generally use coconut in your recipes? I've stopped using coconut except in my salt bars. Maybe the two types of palm is just too much.

 

[newbie]

I have never used palm plus PKO. I always use coconut. I might just have to try the substitute and see if that's the issue.

I've made multiple colors using palm and had time to separate mix and pour. Even over 10 colors. I didn't know too much from a palm source could be so speedy but that's good to know, or at least suspect.

 

[Moody Glenn]

Hello! I don't use palm (pko I do use) but instead I use tallow. It is also a hard fat (oil) and it will also increase trace time. I soap at 100 to 115 degrees F. I have to work a little faster. Tallow will also make those white spots or streaks due to the stearic acid. We are our own worst critic so I believe we will just have to bite the bullet and accept those spots. One particular slight artistic glitch in making handmade soap. I really don't think people mind or think about it - except us, the soap artists. Try not to worry about it.

 

[Obsidian]

Seems like my best option is to stick with lard, not only do I like it better in soap but it traces really slow so I can really work with it if I want to.
I don't get just spots or a few streak, I get huge white areas. See this soap, it is uncolored batter with a blue swirl. I didn't use any kind of white colorant. I know this soap turned out to be beautiful but what if it was a dark colored soap? It would have been ruined.

 

[elmtree]

I agree with you obsidian. I dislike palm oil as well. I have a 50lb bucket I'm using up then I too will find something else. The problem is it's so nice to make a hard bar without animal fats. It doesn't seem to matter the temp for me, I always get at least a few white spots . I hate them but I can't figure out how to not get them either. I soap at 120-130 using palm. I've also tried 100 and no difference. So I feel your pain!

 

[Obsidian]

50 lbs? I feel for you too lol. I only have 7lbs not counting the jar of spectrum shortening I finally used up. If I had issues with animal fats, I would stick with the palm and try to find a recipe that works better. I'd probably give up making dark or bright colored bars though.
Is that a clay colored bar? I adore the colors made with clay but I hate how it feels in soap, dries me out something terrible.

 

[green soap]

The first time I used palm was recently for the blind superfat swap. Only a plain white soap but it was 'drama free'. Never tried swirling with it and will not get to that. I will use the rest of the palm in pie crust.

 

[Neve]

I like palm. I won't use animal fats and I was struggling for hardness before I got the palm. I use CO as well. No streaks and traces fine. But I'm used to a fairly fast trace!

I tend to stick blend only to near-trace and hand stir a lot with the spatula to get even colour. Today I used EOs instead of those nightmare FOs and I had plenty of time to work and play.

My bars are also 40% OO perhaps that helps.

 

[BabyPickles106]

Obsidian I think your blue and white bars are beautiful.

 

[Kansas Farm Girl]

Obsidian, are you sure that animal fats would not go over well where you live? I know that some areas are anti-animal, but other areas, like where I am, are definitely not. In fact some who don't pay attention to the content said they actually looked at the label when they realized they liked a new batch of soap better than an old one I gave them and realized the old ones were veggie and new batch contained lard or tallow. I do have some palm, and don't use it often, like you I don't really like using it.

 

[Obsidian]

Most people around here could care less. In fact, a good 50% of soaps I see at craft fairs don't even have labels or ingredients and no one ever asks whats in them. There are a few vegetarians and I had wanted to offer 2-3 all veggie soaps for that market but with the palm difficulties, I'm only going to do one. My unscented/uncolored bars will be made with palm, I don't want to risk a piggy smell by using lard.
I've not ever seen lard in any other soaps so you never know, maybe I'll corner a local market. I too notice a better soap when lard is used, the lather is just nicer.

 

[BabyPickles106]

Is it normal for lard soaps to be hard and brittle? I liked the hardness but the brittleness of the batch I made had all but a couple of bard crumbling in the center. Is there an amount of lard that should not be exceed?

 

[cmzaha]

I use palm in almost all my soaps even with pko. On rare occasions I do get some stearic dots but very very seldom. I buy mine in 5 gallon buckets and do not remelt it down. I just scoop from different areas of the bucket if I notice seperated stearic. I use it with pko in my non coconut oil soaps. One of my recipes uses 22% palm with 20% pko rice bran shea and olive. Makes a lovely soap and does not trace to fast to swirl even with my 35% lye solution. I love how long a soap last when using palm. My customers also comment on how much longer my soaps last versus others they purchase