quick recipe check

[dillsandwitch]

I have been playing around with soapcalc and have formulated a recipe that I think will be okay, but I just want to double check it first. Please if this recipe wont work well, I am open to sugestions on how to improve it

Olive Oil 35%
Coconut Oil 20%
Grapeseed Oil 10%
Rice Bran Oil 35%

I have read that the grapeseed oil has a short shelf life. Does this affect the soap once it has been made into soap and shorten its lifespan for storage or is it more of a once the bottle is opened it needs to be used fairly quickly? I cant find any definitive answers on this. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough. I dunno.

TIA

 

[pamielynn]

It is a "soft" recipe and is high in linoleic oil, so it may give you problems down the road. Make sure your oils are really fresh and don't discount the lye too much (I wouldn't go over 6% for this recipe, myself).

When you get a new bottle of grapeseed oil, open it and add a shot of vitamin e oil or meadowfoam oil. Both seem to help extend the life of a fragile oil.

 

[lsg]

Your soap will need to cure a long time because it will be soft for a while. You will have a conditioning soap with not much lather. Why use both olive and rice bran? They have similar qualities. I use food grade rice bran oil most of the time instead of olive. I can order 6 gallons at a time from Riceland and use it for cooking as well as soaping. You can either up the coconut oil or add palm oil and reduce the olive and rice bran for a harder bar with better lather.

 

[dillsandwitch]

You can either up the coconut oil or add palm oil and reduce the olive and rice bran for a harder bar with better lather.

What % of each oil would you recommend if I was to use just Olive, Coconut and Palm? Also would it be a good idea to get some castor oil in there?

Also as I have some rice bran oil already can I substitute it entirely for olive?

TIA

 

[lsg]

Here are the percentages that I would use

Coconut 20%
Palm 25%
Castor 8%
Rice Bran 47%
Vit. E few drops

You should get a hard bar with good creamy and bubbly lather. If you don't have access to Castor oil add an extra 8% coconut oil. I use Rice Bran oil instead of olive most of the time. Don't worry about entering the few drops of Vit. E in the lye calculator. It doesn't add up to that much and it can help prevent rancid soap.

 

[dillsandwitch]

Awesome thanks. I have just ordered some palm and castor oil online. Hopefully I will receive it early next week. I'll track down some Vit E oil at the chemist on the weekend

 

[eucalypta]

Here are the percentages that I would use

Coconut 20%
Palm 25%
Castor 8%
Rice Bran 47%
Vit. E few drops

You should get a hard bar with good creamy and bubbly lather. If you don't have access to Castor oil add an extra 8% coconut oil. I use Rice Bran oil instead of olive most of the time. Don't worry about entering the few drops of Vit. E in the lye calculator. It doesn't add up to that much and it can help prevent rancid soap.

I see you've been soaping for quite a while.
I respect your experience and don't want to be a pita, but

I really don't get the RBO advise! DOS prone and a "few drops" of Vit. E are not going to prevent that - wont survive the lye.
47% really is very very much.
How much I love RBO, in soap I wouldn't go higher than 10%.
(Unless there would be high oleic RBO available.)

Are you familiar with the single oil soap test? There are more tests with the same results.

 

[lsg]

I have never had DOS with my rice bran soap and I have never had a problem with DOS since I started using Vit. E in my soap. High oleic oils have a high Vit. E content making them less prone to rancidity. That is my experience in as you say "many years of soaping." Have you tried using rice bran and Vit. E oils or are you going by what you have read somewhere? I am offering advice from my own experience. Take it or leave it.

 

[lpstephy85]

I use RBO higher than 10% with ROE added to the container and have not ran into DOS yet (knock on wood).

 

[Cindy2428]

Eucalypta - thank-you. I have been looking all over for something just like this and Castile was the only thing popping up.

 

[eucalypta]

I have never had DOS with my rice bran soap and I have never had a problem with DOS since I started using Vit. E in my soap. High oleic oils have a high Vit. E content making them less prone to rancidity. That is my experience in as you say "many years of soaping. Have you tried using of rice bran and Vit. E oils or are you going by what you have read somewhere? I am offering advice from my own experience. Take it or leave it.

I'm not the type to accept anything "read somewhere" as the truth, and I propagate awareness of undocumented resources to my fellow soapers as well.

As a matter of fact I tested the most "notorious" oils early 2010. i.e RiceBran, Arachide, Sunflower and Canola.
(Evening Primrose I considered too expensive to soap).
All developed DOS sooner or later, though all within 6 months.
I kept reference examples stored in a cool and dry, ventilated place until early last year, when I reorganized my house.

Regarding the Vit. E (which I use at 0,5% in the sensitive carrier oils, a.o. used for lotion making + store
refrigerated in a dedicated fridge), I could not find an article directly related to NaOH soaping.
But I found this scientific veterinarian research article, describing the use of NaOH to deplete a substance of Vitamin E.

...Selenium deficient barley grown in Northern Ireland was treated with sodium hydroxide to deplete it of vitamin E. Housed cattle fed a complete diet based on this treated barley developed nutritional degenerative myopathy, showing that spontaneous ...

I think that, in all likelyhood, we may conclude that adding vit. E to a CP soap batch will not be effective.

I know that storage is an important factor in keeping soaps from getting DOS too.

So IMHO there is a combination of factors that could facilitate or prevent DOS:
- quality of the oils/fats
- shelf life a.t.m. of soaping
- amount of RBO (and other fats)
- storing
- process (CP/HP), where in HP soaping added vit. E after saponification may prevent DOS.

This isn't about who is right or who is wrong; this is a forum where we can share ideas and opinions and learn from each other.

 

[lsg]

This isn't about who is right or who is wrong; this is a forum where we can share ideas and opinions and learn from each other.

Yep, that was my thought exactly when I posted my experience using Rice Bran oil and Vit. E.

 

[Hazel]

Since you mentioned sunflower, I've used it in soap and I've never had DOS in any of those batches. To be fair, I switched to using high oleic which is said to be more stable about 3 years ago.

I also use RBO in soap and add tocopherol when I open the containers. The tocopherol is to help extend the shelf life of the oil and I don't expect it to survive saponification. I can't say whether it's more prone to DOS since the batches are completely gone or only around 3 months old. Plus I haven't used it higher than 15% although, I did formulate a recipe in which it's 25%. I haven't had time to make it yet.

I bought a soap which had RBO as its first ingredient. It had to have been at a larger percentage than what is recommended since it was the only conditioning oil other than castor listed on the label. I tucked it away, forgot about it and then found it after I'd had it a year. (Somehow it had gotten shoved all the way back in the cabinet and I didn't notice it when I'd put towels away.) It had a date on it so I knew it was 18 months old. There wasn't any DOS. Perhaps the stability of RBO depends on the company that processes the oil. I don't know. I'm just wondering why some people get DOS and some people don't.