Question about the CPHP Tutorial

[Muzhik]

First off: Thanks, Elizabeth, for the tutorial on Crock Pot Hot Process soapmaking! It's a real help!

Second: I just want to check something out. If I wanted to test a number of fragrances, would it be possible after ZAP testing to scoop out some of the soap, scent it, put it in a small mold, then do the same to another scoop using a different fragrance, and on down the line? Are there any precautions I need to know about before trying this?

Again, Thanks!

 

[honor435]

what do you want to test? if it fades, discolors? as long as your soap is done cooking you can split it up and scent it, add colors. I sometimes do 1/2 batch one scent the other 1/2 another scent. Anything with vanilla will most likely discolor.

 

[Muzhik]

what do you want to test? if it fades, discolors? as long as your soap is done cooking you can split it up and scent it, add colors. I sometimes do 1/2 batch one scent the other 1/2 another scent. Anything with vanilla will most likely discolor.

That's what I wanted to know. I've had sinus problems most of my life, and so don't really trust my sense of smell. (One of the first gifts I bought my ex-wife was a soap that looked very pretty and I thought smelled nice. She accepted it with one of THOSE smiles. A year later, after I had some sinus surgery, I found the soap in the back of the cupboard, took one whiff, and understood her reaction!) I want to be able to experiment with different scents and combinations without devoting an entire batch to any one fragrance. (At least until after I've determined that it's a good fragrance.)

 

[krissy]

i sometimes stick a piece of cardboard wrapped in plastic down the center of my Crock, then i color and scent each side differently, it stays put through the entire process and i can cook two batches at once.

 

[evergreen]

Yes, you can break up a batch and scent it differently. You simply need to have everything ready and plan appropriately. My suggestion would be to coordinate your scents depending upon the flash point. I work with EO's mostly rather than FO's. The flash point for each essential oil is different. Therefore, I might use two scents with a significant difference in temperature needs to allow me the time to blend and mold each half of the batch. For example, if I wanted to make half a batch Peppermint and the flash point is 155 degrees F, then I can blend that while the other half continues to cool. I might want to use a citrus like orange 15x with a flash point of 129 degrees for the remaining soap. If you're using fragrance oils, they might have the drastically different flash points too...so just take care of the one with the highest temp first and you'd be fine. You can "decant" your soap into a plastic bowl (remove it from the hot crock) to speed up the cooling process. I do this all the time now.

People who do marbling will do the same thing to blend colors and scents and then put the two back together in the same mold. Have fun with it!

 

[honor435]

no need to worry so much about flash points. I add them to cp and hp at any temp and have the soap turn out fine. If you look at past posts about flashpoints it is mostly for shipping , not soaping.

 

[evergreen]

>no need to worry so much about flash points

I have to disagree with you--particularly in regards to citrus EO's. I've had lime EO (freshly purchased) flash off from both CP and HP soaps. The CP was actually kept from gelling and it still flashed off.

 

[Muzhik]

How do you find the flash point for the particular scent you're using? It isn't listed on the bottles of the ones I have.

 

[evergreen]

It varies per brand and scent. What brand are you using? Where did you buy it? Places like WholesSaleSuppliesPlus.com post the flash point on the listing along with recommended usage levels. They sell a lot of Crafters Choice products. You can go back to the listing on the website (if you bought it online).

 

[Sunny]

>no need to worry so much about flash points

I have to disagree with you--particularly in regards to citrus EO's. I've had lime EO (freshly purchased) flash off from both CP and HP soaps. The CP was actually kept from gelling and it still flashed off.

"The flash point of a volatile liquid is the lowest temperature at which it can vaporize to form an ignitable mixture in air. Measuring a liquid's flash point requires an ignition source. At the flash point, the vapor may cease to burn when the source of ignition is removed."
I quoted this from Wiki so I wouldn't have to dig through the forums, but this discussion has happened many times here.

Your lime essential oil didn't flash off unless there was a flame present.
True citrus essential oils are known for their instability at high pH. That is why the scent disappears when these oils are used in CP and HP.

So honor is basically right. While adding your scent a little later in HP (cooler) may keep some of it from evaporating from the heat, the flash point does not matter that much in soap. The flash point is intended for shipping information.

 

[evergreen]

Well, I think this is a dance of semantics. Flash point for combustion is the correct usage, I'm sure. Flash off for scents that have evaporated away suddenly is probably a better use of terms. We are talking about hot process soap in this thread and I adhere to flash point temp guidelines so as to keep the potency of my essential oils. Lime (which, I know if notorious for instability) and other citrus aside, since it's probably not the best example; essential oils will not stay stable in high temp soap batches (at moderate pH). Hot process soaps can be near 200 degrees in a crock pot or double boiler. Rebatch at 180 degrees a sample scented by an EO with a flash point of around 160, like Lavender, and you'll find that the scent has disappeared. Heat accelerates evaporation. Part of the definition of flash point is a process of a liquid becoming a vapor--the combustion happens when exposed to flame. So, as far as scent potency, if an EO becomes a vapor when the carrier substance exceeds the flash temp...the scent will go by way of that vapor. Cold process soap makers don't need to concern themselves with the temperature, but hot process soap makers do. I stand by that.

 

[Muzhik]

Sorry. My fragrances come from Hobby Lobby down the street. I'm limited to whatever the store has in stock from "Something Fabulous" (which is HL's in-store brand) and "Crafty Bubbles".

CB Patchouli has gotten good reviews online, but it doesn't come with any information on strength, how much to use, etc. Their web site sells stuff like "Lemon Oil" and "Lime Oil", which I would LOVE to try in soap; except the site carries a warning on those oils: "Do not use in skin products that are intended for use in direct sunlight. May enhance sunburn." I understand this means not to use in any lotion or creme that you'll put on before going sunbathing, but does that warning include soap?

The SF scents say that the average bar of soap weighs 4oz and to add the fragrance at 3-9 drops per ounce.

So that's what I'm working with.

 

[Sunny]

Sorry. My fragrances come from Hobby Lobby down the street. I'm limited to whatever the store has in stock from "Something Fabulous" (which is HL's in-store brand) and "Crafty Bubbles".

CB Patchouli has gotten good reviews online, but it doesn't come with any information on strength, how much to use, etc. Their web site sells stuff like "Lemon Oil" and "Lime Oil", which I would LOVE to try in soap; except the site carries a warning on those oils: "Do not use in skin products that are intended for use in direct sunlight. May enhance sunburn." I understand this means not to use in any lotion or creme that you'll put on before going sunbathing, but does that warning include soap?

The SF scents say that the average bar of soap weighs 4oz and to add the fragrance at 3-9 drops per ounce.

So that's what I'm working with.

Just make sure your fragrances say they are safe for skin care! Some of those fragrances are intended for candles so just be safe.

It's usually fine to use 1 ounce of fragrance oil to 1 lb of oils in your recipe.

Yeah, the lemon and lime are fine to use in soap, since it washes off and doesn't stay on your skin, it won't make you sunburn worse or anything.

I would recommend going to wholesalesuppliesplus.com and browsing through their fragrance oils... the shipping is included in the price and they have really high quality fo's!

 

[Sunny]

Well, I think this is a dance of semantics.

I guess the main point I was trying to convey is, your citrus essential oils would have disappeared regardless of the temperature. And that the flash point on the bottle has nothing to do with the temperature you soap at, but is there for shipping purposes.

So also, Muzhik, in addition to my last post, I want to add:

yes lemon and lime and citrus eo's are fine to use in soap, but the scent will not stay! So it is a waste of money to buy them for scenting soap.

 

[krissy]

Well, I think this is a dance of semantics.

I guess the main point I was trying to convey is, your citrus essential oils would have disappeared regardless of the temperature. And that the flash point on the bottle has nothing to do with the temperature you soap at, but is there for shipping purposes.

So also, Muzhik, in addition to my last post, I want to add:

yes lemon and lime and citrus eo's are fine to use in soap, but the scent will not stay! So it is a waste of money to buy them for scenting soap.

i am stubborn and had to try to make a citrus scented soap (CP) even though everyone said it would not stick. i took the little leftovers of every citrus EO i had and added them to a 2lb batch of soap. in total my EO's were about 1.24 oz, i made the soap more than a month ago and the scent has stuck amazingly. it hasnt faded at all... i was pleasantly surprised, so sometimes it is worth the experiment.

 

[Sunny]

i am stubborn and had to try to make a citrus scented soap (CP) even though everyone said it would not stick. i took the little leftovers of every citrus EO i had and added them to a 2lb batch of soap. in total my EO's were about 1.24 oz, i made the soap more than a month ago and the scent has stuck amazingly. it hasnt faded at all... i was pleasantly surprised, so sometimes it is worth the experiment.

good! I'm planning to try this as well with the cornstarch Magia suggested and some other things too.

 

[Muzhik]

Just make sure your fragrances say they are safe for skin care! Some of those fragrances are intended for candles so just be safe.

It's usually fine to use 1 ounce of fragrance oil to 1 lb of oils in your recipe.

Yeah, the lemon and lime are fine to use in soap, since it washes off and doesn't stay on your skin, it won't make you sunburn worse or anything.

I would recommend going to wholesalesuppliesplus.com and browsing through their fragrance oils... the shipping is included in the price and they have really high quality fo's!

Thanks for all the replies. I'll be happy to peruse the online fragrance suppliers, as soon as I get a job. One reason I'm enjoying soap-making is that I can buy the oils using my food stamps. (It helps that soap-making doesn't require the most expensive oils available. The only reason I haven't tried corn oil is that I can't find anyone who recommends it.)

The fragrances I did buy and the lye all came from my pop bottle fund. (5 cents a can collected after a home football game can equal a little splurge money.) For my molds I either use a glass 8x8 dish I inherited from my mother, or these small, squat yogurt containers that make a bar that fits nicely into your hand.

What's really nice is that I can donate the majority of my soaps to the local woman's shelter, so I can still tithe even while I'm in need myself.

Oh, BTW: the fragrances all came from the soap-making section of Hobby Lobby and are clearly marked (in very tiny print) that they can be used for soaping.

 

[shdixx]

Can you tell me where in the forum the "crock pot hot process" tutorial is posted? Would like to read up on it. Thanks
Shelly

First off: Thanks, Elizabeth, for the tutorial on Crock Pot Hot Process soapmaking! It's a real help!

 

[Muzhik]

Can you tell me where in the forum the "crock pot hot process" tutorial is posted? Would like to read up on it. Thanks
Shelly

First off: Thanks, Elizabeth, for the tutorial on Crock Pot Hot Process soapmaking! It's a real help!

I had to dig around for a bit. For some reason, the SMF Tutorials (Soap Making Forum Tutorials) web page has a link to the forum, but there's no corresponding link to get from here to there.

In any case, go to http://www.smftutorials.com/. In the right-hand column click on "Soap"; under "Hot Process Soaps" you'll find "Crock Pot Hot Process (CPHP) Soap Tutorial".

 

[shdixx]

Thanks!!! I'll check that out.

Shelly