Pine tar soap

[Steve85569]

I know it's not a brand new topic but I have a friend with psoriasis so I'm trying to learn something new.
How does this recipe look to those of you with some experience in making PT soap?
Thanks in advance,
Steve

View attachment Pinetar-1.pdf

 

[newbie]

I think it looks fine. Some people will try to minimize the CO even more than you have though for someone with skin problems, so you may get that feedback. I can't remember if soapcalc's numbers reflect the softness that PT lends to soap; hopefully someone will mention it. I add some cocoa butter to my PT soap to increase the hardness to counter the softness factor and if soapcalc's hardness number does not reflect that element, it might be worth thinking of something to add in to increase it.

For all the soap I make, I rarely have any bar in the shower other than a PT one.

 

[KristaY]

Your recipe looks much different than mine mostly because I'm not a Lardite, lol, but one thing I also add is 5% cocoa butter. If you haven't made PT soap before you're in for an interesting ride! The PT will accel like no other so I recommend adding the tea tree EO to the oils (since it won't accelerate) then bring your batter just to emulsion. Make sure you have your mold really close at hand then whisk the PT in as quickly as possible and pour. There's no time for a pretty top even. My biggest struggle is not getting voids in the batter since it's so thick when you pour/plop. But then again, I use palm so maybe it speeds up even faster for me.

Good luck Steve!

 

[newbie]

What works even better than whisking in the straight PT is to add all your soft oils together with the PT and mix it thoroughly. Melt your hard oils and add your lye water to that and SB to emulsion at least or light trace. Then pour your soft oil/PT blend zigzagged across your batter so it's not all in one place and whisk in. You'll have more time than if you add just PT albeit not really long. However, with this method, you can get a nice smooth pour and flat top as long as you pour the moment everything is blended and not longer.

 

[KristaY]

What works even better than whisking in the straight PT is to add all your soft oils together with the PT and mix it thoroughly. Melt your hard oils and add your lye water to that and SB to emulsion at least or light trace. Then pour your soft oil/PT blend zigzagged across your batter so it's not all in one place and whisk in. You'll have more time than if you add just PT albeit not really long. However, with this method, you can get a nice smooth pour and flat top as long as you pour the moment everything is blended and not longer.

OMG, newbie, that's brilliant! I'm definitely going to give it a try when I make my next batch. I've tried mixing the PT with part of the warmed OO (equal amount to the PT) which helps a bit but not a ton. Thanks for the tip!

 

[newbie]

I wouldn't even warm up the OO. The PT I use is thick but pourable so stirring it together with your liquid oils doesn't require any warming. Your hard oils have to be warm enough to be liquid but I don't go any warmer than that, just to get that little bit of extra working time. I think I got that method from the huge PT thread that was up last year or the year before so I can't claim credit.

 

[Steve85569]

Thank you for the input! I did read through several of the older threads but didn't want to be necro-posting and started a fresh thread.

I did run a small batch using the numbers and additives listed and added all oils and EO's together prior to adding the lye/acetate/citrate water.
BAM! I was mixing with the spatula as fast as I could. Just barely got it into the silicone mold that was sitting at the ready. Took all of 90 minutes to be ready to cut.

The sodium acetate ( vinegar reacted with lye) causes the bars to harden rather quickly too so I knew I was in for a ride. I was thinking I would have a little more time but still avoided soap on a stick. I'll post pics in the morning before I move it to the curing racks.

I love a challenge and this batch seemed to mock me so you know I'll HAVE TO try it again.:twisted:

 

[Steve85569]

The promised pictures. The second batch is in the mold. Less coconut and more olive. I think the changes gave me another 10 or 12 seconds to get it in the mold.:mrgreen:

 

[DeeAnna]

Looks good, Steve! Congratulations!!

I make PT soap fairly often because it's all DH will use in the shower and he has buddies who scrounge bars to shower with during hunting season. I've used Bickmore PT and Auson brand PT. In all my batches with either brand, I end up with a dark bar that looks like fudge. Some people get the brown sugar color like yours. I'm not sure why the difference .... curious.

 

[gdawgs]

Looks good, Steve! Congratulations!!

I make PT soap fairly often because it's all DH will use in the shower and he has buddies who scrounge bars to shower with during hunting season. I've used Bickmore PT and Auson brand PT. In all my batches with either brand, I end up with a dark bar that looks like fudge. Some people get the brown sugar color like yours. I'm not sure why the difference .... curious.

Mine turned out very dark like your DeeAnna. Do you think it's the pine tar, or could it be the blend of oils used?

 

[newbie]

I was wondering the same as I looked at Steve's bars. I use Bickmore only and my bars are very very dark brown. I do gel. Did you gel yours, Steve? Although I didn't look at my recipe, I know my oils are about the same as his recipe although I do use that bit of cocoa butter. I can't believe that changes the color that much.

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm not sure why some PT soap is light colored -- I'd say "brown sugar" PT soap is more the exception than the rule, because most pics I've seen of PT soap are the very dark "fudge" version.

I once thought maybe there are solids in the PT that need to be mixed up, but now I'm not so sure about that, having stirred up my PT before using it and not really finding much sediment to stir up. My best guess at this point is that the difference in color might come from how PT is made -- a not-super-precise heating process using wood that probably varies in composition. It's possible that some cans of PT might just have less of the darker colored ingredients than others due to this variability.

The percent of PT may also contribute to a difference in color. I know the popular Grandpa's Pine Tar soap is a honey color -- even lighter than Steve's. After some sleuthing, I decided this soap has 5% or less PT. That might also contribute to the lighter color for this particular product.

My PT recipes have varied over time, but all have 50% to 70% lard/tallow and 10% with the rest being coconut oil and liquid fats. Sometimes castor, sometimes not. I can't say I've seen a color difference from recipe to recipe -- they have all been dark fudge -- but I have seen a difference in softness. Less lard-tallow and more liquid fats => softer.

 

[Steve85569]

I was wondering the same as I looked at Steve's bars. I use Bickmore only and my bars are very very dark brown. I do gel. Did you gel yours, Steve? Although I didn't look at my recipe, I know my oils are about the same as his recipe although I do use that bit of cocoa butter. I can't believe that changes the color that much.

I did not gel. The second batch came out the same color but I got creative and made a small batch of uncolored soap with other oils to "mix" with. I knew there would be NO swirling but wanted to make a two tone soap. The second batch was not gelled either but I did run a higher water/ milk to lye to see if it would on it's own. I'll get pictures up soon since it's raining and I won't be doing much outside today.

I forgot. I am using 20% pine tar in these so I have no explanation for the lightness of the color. I even stirred the can before using to get any goodies off the bottom.

 

[Steve85569]

Pictures....

 

[ca_soap]

We make a lot of pine tar, enough that I have my batch size up to just shy of 30lbs at a time. My concern with the recipe would be the 20% pine tar, I would be afraid of this being too soft of a bar with the oils used. My recipe uses all of the oils you are using and the only difference other than percentages of oils used is that I add shea butter to mine and a mix of clays. I'm getting excellent feedback from my customers with psoriasis and I'm nowhere near 20% pine tar. As far as method, I hot process my pine tar soaps. I get my oils to desired temp and add them to my pine tar and clays. I use a stick blender to incorporate the pine tar to the oils and do this in my cooker pan. I then add my lye solution and mix it in with a standard hand mixer on low speed. This will come to trace fairly quickly and remains at that stage for nearly as long as I continue to mix it. From there out it is like any other hot process soap except with my pine tar recipe I can cut my loaves with a wire cutter without any issues at all.