PH reduction

[Rhum]

Hello

I've made simple liquid soap with coconut oil, koh and glycerine instead of water twice @5% @ 10% super fat using Soapee calculator and I'm happy with the results just PH.
and of course diluted 1:1 by glycerine
The paper Ph meter stick shows PH of around 9 and its too high besides my skin sometime after using it become dry and I think its because of high ph
In addition to that factory made LS had the ph of about 7

I'd be so grateful if anybody suggest solution to lower the ph while remaining the soap specs.

thank you so much in advance

 

[shunt2011]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

You cannot lower your ph to neutral. Handmade soap bar and liquid will have a PH between 8.5-12. You may need to look at using surfactants. Check out swiftcraftymonkey.com. Also, using too high if a SF could cause separation.

 

[Rhum]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

You cannot lower your ph to neutral. Handmade soap bar and liquid will have a PH between 8.5-12. You may need to look at using surfactants. Check out swiftcraftymonkey.com. Also, using too high if a SF could cause separation.

thanks a billion for your info, I've been looking for such a source badly
best wishes

 

[Susie]

You should post your entire recipe in weights, and we can troubleshoot it for you. It probably is not the pH bothering you, and those pH strips are notoriously inaccurate when trying to get the pH of soap. Also, a soap made with only coconut oil is going to be drying. There are other recipes out there.

You have, according to your post, a 5% superfat of one recipe, and a 10% superfat in the next, if I understand it correctly. Oils/fats are acidic. You can't lower your pH any further. I am really surprised that you do not have a LOT of separation in those two recipes.

 

[Rhum]

You should post your entire recipe in weights, and we can troubleshoot it for you. It probably is not the pH bothering you, and those pH strips are notoriously inaccurate when trying to get the pH of soap. Also, a soap made with only coconut oil is going to be drying. There are other recipes out there.

You have, according to your post, a 5% superfat of one recipe, and a 10% superfat in the next, if I understand it correctly. Oils/fats are acidic. You can't lower your pH any further. I am really surprised that you do not have a LOT of separation in those two recipes.

hi Susie, i really appreciate your advice, here is the recipes:
#1 coconut 75degree 150 gr, koh @87.5 purity 42gr, glycerine 60gr as 38% of oil, superfat 5 %

#2 coconut 75degree 100gr, koh @85% purity 27gr, glycerine 64gr as 30% lye concentration

would you mention some oils you intended above that do not cause skin dry
thanks alot

 

[Susie]

It is definitely your oils drying your skin. Here is a recipe I blatantly stole from IrishLass (she shared it publicly), then tweaked it a tiny bit. It makes luscious soap. You can obtain all the oils from your local grocery store and pharmacy. The castor oil will be in the laxative section.

Coconut Oil 25% 8 oz
Olive Oil 65% 20.8 oz
Castor Oil 10% 3.2 oz

KOH 7.1 oz (set calculator to 90% purity)
Water 10 oz
Sugar 1 tablespoon
Glycerin 11.3 oz

Melt and mix the oils. Add the glycerin to the oils.
Mix the KOH in small increments, stirring vigorously, with the water. (Save a tablespoon out to mix with the sugar, then dump that into the oils.)
Once the KOH is completely dissolved, add it to the oils.
Stickblend until you get an applesauce, you will then think it is ready, it is not. Continue to stickblend, it will go back to liquid, but once it is liquid, be prepared for either flying bubbles or almost instantaneous paste. I have had it do both on the various batches I have made. Either way, you are done stickblending.

Cover the pot and walk away. I usually clean up all my soaping stuff and wash the dishes. Once you have taken a break for half an hour or more, start checking the paste. Once you see it looking like vaseline was mixed in, you can zap check it. If it is zapless, you can begin dilution. My theory is that the hotter your oils and your KOH/water mixture, the less time it takes to hit gel stage, but I have no proof. I have had this take as little as 20 minutes, and as long as 4 hours.

If you want to stickblend less, (IrishLass does not stickblend at all, just uses a whisk to get it to flying bubble stage. I am an impatient sort, so I stickblend.) just stickblend until it no longer separates when you stop. Then put a lid on it and walk away. Then start checking it for the "vaseline" appearance in about an hour.

 

[DeeAnna]

Susie's advice is the same as mine -- pure coconut oil soap is going to be VERY harsh to the skin as a liquid soap. It's fine for household cleaning or laundry, but not fine for skin. I use the same blend of fats as Susie's recipe and like it very well. I even use this soap when wet felting when I know my hands will be in soapy water for hours, and this soap does not dry my skin.

Another tip is to use a 25% lye concentration rather than 30% concentration. This means there are 3 parts of water and/or glycerin to 1 part KOH. That extra liquid will make the soap paste easier to stir and to dilute. To give you an example of what I mean, Susie's recipe uses 25% lye concentration -- 10 oz water, 11.3 oz glycerin -- for a total of 21.3 oz -- and 7.1 oz KOH.

 

[Rhum]

Thank you so much dear Susie and DeeAnna, I'll take them into practice and let you know the outcomes
I really appreciate your time and effort made to respond, hope could make up later
much gratitude

 

[Seawolfe]

Yeah, coconut glycerine soap is what I use for my dishes (though at 0% SF). Susie gave you a much nicer recipe for skin. Another hint for when diluting from IrishLass: add 3% paste weight of sodium lactate - it helps the sticky paste dissolve easier. Also remember that on any new recipe your dilution will change, so you have to kind of sneak up on it.

 

[IrishLass]

Here is a recipe I blatantly stole from IrishLass (she shared it publicly),

LOL.....And in turn, I originally got it from 3bees~1flower (Carrie Peterson), who also happened to have shared it publically. (I just wanted to give the original credit to whom it was due)

Another tip is to use a 25% lye concentration rather than 30% concentration. This means there are 3 parts of water and/or glycerin to 1 part KOH. That extra liquid will make the soap paste easier to stir and to dilute. To give you an example of what I mean, Susie's recipe uses 25% lye concentration -- 10 oz water, 11.3 oz glycerin -- for a total of 21.3 oz -- and 7.1 oz KOH.

Ditto what DeeAnna said on the 25% lye concentration. Although I would never use that much water when making bar-type soap, I find it to be absolutely essential/necessary when making liquid soap.


IrishLass

 

[topofmurrayhill]

#1 coconut 75degree 150 gr, koh @87.5 purity 42gr, glycerine 60gr as 38% of oil, superfat 5 %
#2 coconut 75degree 100gr, koh @85% purity 27gr, glycerine 64gr as 30% lye concentration

To dissolve KOH, you need at least 2 1/2 parts glycerin, so the maximum KOH concentration would be 28%. If you didn't use any water, at least recipe #1 and maybe both of them could not have resulted in a clear KOH solution. But I may have misunderstood what you did.

Another tip is to use a 25% lye concentration rather than 30% concentration. This means there are 3 parts of water and/or glycerin to 1 part KOH. That extra liquid will make the soap paste easier to stir and to dilute. To give you an example of what I mean, Susie's recipe uses 25% lye concentration -- 10 oz water, 11.3 oz glycerin -- for a total of 21.3 oz -- and 7.1 oz KOH.

Ditto what DeeAnna said on the 25% lye concentration. Although I would never use that much water when making bar-type soap, I find it to be absolutely essential/necessary when making liquid soap.

The lye concentration can be less than 25% (more liquid) when you are using a lot of glycerin.

Instructions based on the glycerin method call for 3 parts glycerin to 1 part KOH. Let's say for example 300 g water to 100 g KOH. Then you dissolve the KOH in the glycerin instead of water. Since dissolving the KOH directly in glycerin is dangerous due to the high heat required and the potential for boil-overs of a hot caustic liquid, you can replicate such a recipe like this:

-- Dissolve 100 g KOH in 100 g water.

-- Add that solution to 300 g room temp glycerin.

-- Subtract the 100 g water from the dilution water.

That is more liquid up front than normally called for (only 20% KOH) but it works because of the glycerin. It also replicates a glycerin method recipe exactly while being much easier, safer and faster.

 

[Rhum]

hello and thank you all
have you ever measured the ph of this particular recipe meticulously?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Why would someone do that? pH is not important for soap making. A soap can have a lower pH than another but not be as nice to use, because of other factors.

 

[hlecter]

Very helpful posts!

I made several times the glycerin liquid soap the one that Susie described on post #6 with success.
It works really good but i want to use it on my face and so its pH its too high for my skin as i measured it at 8.5...

Could i use some citric acid to neutralize it? Just a thought, i haven' t tried it before but i read other folks did...

 

[shunt2011]

Very helpful posts!

I made several times the glycerin liquid soap the one that Susie described on post #6 with success.
It works really good but i want to use it on my face and so its pH its too high for my skin as i measured it at 8.5...

Could i use some citric acid to neutralize it? Just a thought, i haven' t tried it before but i read other folks did...

You cannot get the ph down to neutral. It won't be soap. It will separate. Soap will have a ph of 8.5-11 and maybe a bit higher. That is what makes it soap.

I highly recommend checking out swiftcraftymoney.com. You may need for non soap cleansers.

I use soap on my face with no issues. Especially salt soap. I prefer the bars to the liquid for my face though. I

 

[hlecter]

You cannot get the ph down to neutral. It won't be soap. It will separate. Soap will have a ph of 8.5-11 and maybe a bit higher. That is what makes it soap.

I highly recommend checking out swiftcraftymoney.com. You may need for non soap cleansers.

I use soap on my face with no issues. Especially salt soap. I prefer the bars to the liquid for my face though. I

I ve read on swiftcraftymonkey and on other forum/blogs that soap bars arent good for hair and face because of their pH..

I ve tried them on my hair and on face of course and i havent any problem so far. But when i read all these things i stoped using them so often as before...

 

[Susie]

Although I use commercial shampoo and conditioner on my hair, I use the same soap on my face as the rest of my body. Every single day. I have never had any problem with it.

 

[shunt2011]

Ditto. I don't use my soap on my hair but everything else is no issue.

 

[IrishLass]

I don't use any of my lye-based soaps on my hair or my face. I've tried it, but the higher pH doesn't play nice with me in those areas. In regards to my face- even commercial-brand syndets don't play nice with me there either, so I use just plain water and a facial cloth to wash my face (which actually works great for me). For my hair, I use commercial-brand syndet shampoos/conditioners, which work really nice for me there. For the rest of me, I use my soap without any issues.


IrishLass

 

[Rhum]

according to recent posts i should say i've been washing my hair with handmade olive soap bars that is sold here couple of months and recently with salt bar i made with coconut oil.
i'm still happy with it bcoze makes my hair more tender but one worry, scalp ph is said to be 5.5, should i watch for a sign of any adverse effect?
btw is it male or female related?

Why would someone do that? pH is not important for soap making. A soap can have a lower pH than another but not be as nice to use, because of other factors.

thank you for your notice but how could a soap have high ph and still doesn't wash all the skin oils and moisture? I'm asking to know more, any comprehensive online source you suggest about the factors you said?