Percentage used

[Cherrydene soapy]

Good morning soapers the question for this morning is when looking at the % of FO used for cosmetic use or soap use ( 0.83% Almond and Plum crumble FO) does this mean 0.83% ppo or in the total amount of oils used?
I haven’t had much success with FO and I have wondering if I have been using too much 5% with the ones I have used so far. I think I have been making a significant mistake.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

When you're talking % I would take that as meaning the total oils. Ppo or per kilo or whatever only makes sense when also talking about a set weight.

 

[lsg]

I check the maximum recommended amount that the supplier lists. It won't matter whether you use percentage PPO or the total amount of oils, because in the end it would total the same. 5% x 16 oz = .8 oz if you had 32 oz of oil, it would be 2 x .8 = 1.6, 5% x 32 oz of oil = 1.6 oz,

 

[Cherrydene soapy]

So the FO I want to use says ‘ the maximum ratio that can be used in cosmetic products is 0.83%’
My total amount of oils is 963 gr. I don’t use oz, I do everything by gr.
0.83% of 963 gr = 7.9 gr
Am I right in thinking then in 963 gr of oils I can only use 7.9 gr of the FO?
thank you x

 

[earlene]

So in England, is soap considered a cosmetic product?

From what I understand about fragrances, the percentages are usually different for different categories of product. Cosmetics has a lower usage because they are leave-on products, whereas so is washed off and has a higher percentage allowed in more of the fragrances. Personal care products are categorized by IFRA and soap is in category 9, whereas lipstick is in category 1, so the percentage of a fragrance for lipstick is lower because the lips are exposed to the chemicals in fragrances for a much longer time, which is why the percentage for that category is usually much smaller.

Here is a reference from Nurture Soaps that shows the categories and has a pretty good explanation of how this works: https://nurturesoap.com/blogs/soap-making-rules/how-to-read-ifra-rates-for-fragrance-oils

 

[Cherrydene soapy]

Thank you that is really helpful, when I looked I cannot find IFRA document for this FO on the website it was just written in the description. Max use 0.83% I think I will see if I can find it on another site xx

 

[earlene]

Perhaps you can contact them and ask. Do they have online chat or a 'contact us' section?

 

[shunt2011]

I would contact the supplier and ask if they can provide the information for you.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...the maximum ratio that can be used in cosmetic products is 0.83%..."

As hand crafted soap makers, we often base measurements on "ppo" which means we base the amount of an additive on the weight of oils alone. Outside our little world, that is not the way it's done.

IRFA guidelines are based on the total weight of finished product. I would say this guideline is also based on total weight of product, since it's not a product sold for use only in soap -- it's listed for other cosmetics as well.

Frankly, with a fragrance with a limit that low, I'd not use it in soap.

"...does this mean 0.83% ppo or in the total amount of oils used?..."

A percentage defined "per pound of oils" means exactly the same thing as a percentage defined on the total weight of oils. The math to calculate the amount of additive is exactly the same and you get the same answer.

If, on the other hand, you see instructions to "add X teaspoons ppo" of an additive (or X grams ppo or something like that), that's a different matter as The Gent pointed out.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

So in England, ...

In the whole of the EU, soap is indeed considered as a cosmetic from r many purposes. But even then, the safety guidelines for fragrances of all types should make a distinction between "leave on" and "wash off" products

 

[LilyJo]

Not sure where you got this FO from but the one I looked at (SP) had 0.83% in the description but also had a an IFRA document in the tech details that confirms 0.83%. Based on what I read its because of the spices (cinnamon etc) that it has such a low maximum usage level.

Each FO will have a differnt max percentage based on its composition so you will need to check for each FO - dont forget that that there is generally a maximum that you can add for your safety assessment too. It does vary but its often in the max 2-3% level.

 

[Cherrydene soapy]

Not sure where you got this FO from but the one I looked at (SP) had 0.83% in the description but also had a an IFRA document in the tech details that confirms 0.83%. Based on what I read its because of the spices (cinnamon etc) that it has such a low maximum usage level.

Each FO will have a differnt max percentage based on its composition so you will need to check for each FO - dont forget that that there is generally a maximum that you can add for your safety assessment too. It does vary but its often in the max 2-3% level.

I got it from a company called Scent Perfique, can I ask what SP stands for?

 

[Cherrydene soapy]

"...the maximum ratio that can be used in cosmetic products is 0.83%..."

As hand crafted soap makers, we often base measurements on "ppo" which means we base the amount of an additive on the weight of oils alone. Outside our little world, that is not the way it's done.

IRFA guidelines are based on the total weight of finished product. I would say this guideline is also based on total weight of product, since it's not a product sold for use only in soap -- it's listed for other cosmetics as well.

Frankly, with a fragrance with a limit that low, I'd not use it in soap.

"...does this mean 0.83% ppo or in the total amount of oils used?..."

A percentage defined "per pound of oils" means exactly the same thing as a percentage defined on the total weight of oils. The math to calculate the amount of additive is exactly the same and you get the same answer.

If, on the other hand, you see instructions to "add X teaspoons ppo" of an additive (or X grams ppo or something like that), that's a different matter as The Gent pointed out.

Thank you

 

[LilyJo]

I got it from a company called Scent Perfique, can I ask what SP stands for?

Sorry - I always call Scent Perfique SP

If you go onto the technical details, it has the IFRA details

 

[Cherrydene soapy]

"...the maximum ratio that can be used in cosmetic products is 0.83%..."

As hand crafted soap makers, we often base measurements on "ppo" which means we base the amount of an additive on the weight of oils alone. Outside our little world, that is not the way it's done.

IRFA guidelines are based on the total weight of finished product. I would say this guideline is also based on total weight of product, since it's not a product sold for use only in soap -- it's listed for other cosmetics as well.

Frankly, with a fragrance with a limit that low, I'd not use it in soap.

"...does this mean 0.83% ppo or in the total amount of oils used?..."

A percentage defined "per pound of oils" means exactly the same thing as a percentage defined on the total weight of oils. The math to calculate the amount of additive is exactly the same and you get the same answer.

If, on the other hand, you see instructions to "add X teaspoons ppo" of an additive (or X grams ppo or something like that), that's a different matter as The Gent pointed out.

Thank you for this info so when I am looking at the IFRA details of a fragrance oil under class 9A if it says max use level at 10%, does this mean I can use up to 10% in my total oils weight if I wanted to? X

 

[Cherrydene soapy]

Sorry - I always call Scent Perfique SP

If you go onto the technical details, it has the IFRA details

Sorry to be complete nit wit but I can’t see it, I can see the safety and something else but no IFRA details sorry to be a pain x

 

[lsg]

Is that the maximum percent usage for soap? If so, use the calculator or change the 10% to hundredths which is .10, (.10 x 963 grams 96.30 grams).

 

[LilyJo]

Sorry to be complete nit wit but I can’t see it, I can see the safety and something else but no IFRA details sorry to be a pain x

No worries

Go to https://www.scentperfique.com/toasted-almond-plum-crumble-fragrance-oil

You will see - download technical infomation.
Open docuemnts and a .rar folder will open
Go to the last document which is the IFRA conformity certificate

Let me know if you cant see it and I can send it to you.

 

[DeeAnna]

...when I am looking at the IFRA details of a fragrance oil under class 9A if it says max use level at 10%, does this mean I can use up to 10% in my total oils weight if I wanted to? X

An IRFA guideline is only about human safety. It doesn't tell you anything about anything else. So you gotta use some common sense and look at the whole picture. For example, some FOs have an IRFA limit of 100% for Cat 9 (soap). Does it make sense to "make soap" with 100% FO? So there's a practical limit for how much scent you can stuff into a soap and not run into problems of the fragrance weeping out or the soap not functioning properly as soap or other problems.

My personal rule of thumb for soap is to use no more than 8% FO based on weight of oils, if the IRFA guideline allows that much. If I go much above 8%, the fragrance gradually weeps out of the soap with unattractive results. Others are comfortable with higher top end percentages (again assuming the IRFA guideline allows), so don't take my personal rule of thumb as gospel truth. As always, YMMV.

And as I said earlier, an IRFA guideline is the % in the whole finished product, not based only on the % of oils. If you use the IRFA guideline but based it only on % of oils, you'll be using a cautious amount of scent. It's far better to be cautious than to overdo.

 

[Cherrydene soapy]

I must be blind as a bat all I can see is 2 documents and the last one was the safety sheet x sorry could you send it xx